Should Strachan Go?

[Guest DAVIDB69]

It astonishes me how much support in the media Strachan has, there is very little questioning of him despite the campaign failure

[BrigtonClyde]

Strachan took over a total disaster, a team who were an utter shambles. The performances have clearly improved during his time & this group was more difficult than the previous World Cup qualification

I didn't think we would qualify because at the moment we lack enough creative quality to break down teams compared to others. Both performances against Georgia and even the game against Gibraltar indicated that

He's tried to gradually bring in a little bit more flair, but he can't turn it all around overnight, especially if he doesn't have the ammunition yet

But sure, let's get rid of him, make him a scapegoat to draw attention away from the fact that virtually every single one of your clubs are responsible for this. Until such time as you stop letting your own teams off the hook with a scouting policy that has favoured "big strong laddies that'll run through brick walls for you" instead of giving a directive that the quality of first touch is the priority, nothing much is likely to change

Even if that policy does change, who's holding all the well paid coaches throughout the game with their coaching certificates from Largs to account? What exactly have they done? Even Georgia showed they were better at passing and moving with the ball while other players knew how to take up position and create space, you know, the basics, than we do

I've even seen some so called coaches on here blaming the attitude of our young players compared to those overseas. Well how convenient, it couldn't possibly be that in fact it's you that's the problem and don't have the ability to do the job correctly.

Of course Strachan like any other manager has made mistakes. But fucking wake up. With the exception of perhaps two or three clubs in this country bringing through some promising talent at least, where is all this quality football getting played at your clubs which means any Scotland manager should be expected to easily qualify for tournaments? Especially given most other countries went back to basics and are now showing us how the game should be played?

[HibeeJibee]

There's the evidence of us already sacrificing two campaigns by sticking by a failed manager into the next one. Vogts got three games of the 2006 World Cup campaign and this ensured that Smith had just too much to do, but he came close.

You'd have sacked Vogts after reaching the Euro 2004 playoff (and indeed winning the first leg v Netherlands)? Surely not.

[Jamaldo]

The fact that five players have just decided to pull out when it's become mathematically impossible for us to qualify indiates to me he hasn't got the respect of some of the players in the squad.

I'm sorry but it's time to go foreign. Get a coach who doesn't give a f**k about reputations and Sellick and get him to kick their fucking arses because they're completely taking the piss now. What have we got to lose?

[HibeeJibee]

Tbf, I suspect such withdrawals would've happened under almost any manager; players (certainly in Britain) haven't the commitment or respect now.

I've said it before but I think a foreign manager is a difficult one. I'd be very much in favour of one (certainly if Moyes wasn't interested) but I predict the media and Tartan Army may not be. Certainly there isn't any point appointing a foreigner if people will be on his back after the first bad result.

[harry94]

The fact that five players have just decided to pull out when it's become mathematically impossible for us to qualify indiates to me he hasn't got the respect of some of the players in the squad.

I really don't think so. Every manager at international football is always going to alienate some players but there is nothing drastically wrong (at least in comparison to Voigts, Burnley and Levein when players were retiring on a weekly basis). Griffiths, Mulgrew and Morrison have all been struggling in fitness and it has been well documented since the game has finished. McArthur is having a baby. Rhodes is the only question mark.

Football is intense not only physically but mentally. Travelling when it isn't necessary is completely daft and I imagine the players would respect a manager who gives that sort of freedom a lot more.

It makes sense to say to tell your players to go home and rest at a moment like this. Next month we'll have a couple of friendlies (I think) and that's when the rebuild will start. There is absolutely nothing to be gained today.

[Jamaldo]

Tbf, I suspect such withdrawals would've happened under almost any manager; players (certainly in Britain) haven't the commitment or respect now.

I've said it before but I think a foreign manager is a difficult one. I'd be very much in favour of one (certainly if Moyes wasn't interested) but I predict the media and Tartan Army may not be. Certainly there isn't any point appointing a foreigner if people will be on his back after the first bad result.

I'm certainly not advocating just appointing any old foreign manager. It needs to be the right man regardless of nationality.

My point is that Strachan, arguably the best Scottish manager available (certainly when he was appointed), shat the bed big style in another game against an awkward eastern European side; a type of game where we have always traditionally struggled. He never learnt the lessons of what's happened in the past and instead of holding his hands up and admitting it was a garbage performance (the result wasn't the worst part, these things happen) he tried to pretend otherwise.

[Gordopolis]

I really don't think so. Every manager at international football is always going to alienate some players but there is nothing drastically wrong (at least in comparison to Voigts, Burnley and Levein when players were retiring on a weekly basis). Griffiths, Mulgrew and Morrison have all been struggling in fitness and it has been well documented since the game has finished. McArthur is having a baby. Rhodes is the only question mark.

Football is intense not only physically but mentally. Travelling when it isn't necessary is completely daft and I imagine the players would respect a manager who gives that sort of freedom a lot more.

It makes sense to say to tell your players to go home and rest at a moment like this. Next month we'll have a couple of friendlies (I think) and that's when the rebuild will start. There is absolutely nothing to be gained today.

Medial ligament strain according to the SFA statement. Also attitude-wise, out of them all, he's probably the least likely to have pulled out unless he had to (though Morrison and McArthur are in a similar mould of being dedicated team players).

With Rhodes and Griffiths, surely game time vs Gibraltar would have been an attractive proposition (high chance you'll net and boost your chances of being trusted in future) anyway.

[sergie's no1 fan]

I'm certainly not advocating just appointing any old foreign manager. It needs to be the right man regardless of nationality.

My point is that Strachan, arguably the best Scottish manager available (certainly when he was appointed), shat the bed big style in another game against an awkward eastern European side; a type of game where we have always traditionally struggled. He never learnt the lessons of what's happened in the past and instead of holding his hands up and admitting it was a garbage performance (the result wasn't the worst part, these things happen) he tried to pretend otherwise.

The players have to take a big chunk of the blame too. They bottled it in Georgia. Is it the managers fault they couldn't muster 1 shot on target? Is it his fault they couldn't defend that cross ? He picked the same players who got us into a great position, who had performed well up till then.

He didn't shit the bed, the players did.

[tlg1903]

I want Strachan to stay. Yes he made a few mistakes this group but I think he will learn from that. He's a good manager who has actually had us playing some nice stuff this group and is worth giving another go IMO. Georgia away was always the big banana skin of the group and that is what has done us but that aside we only lost to the world champions when consistently playing Grant fucking Hanley. Thats no small achievement. It hurts that we were so near and yet so far but i just dont think binning Strachan is the answer especially since I've yet to hear of a credible replacement that would be better. I really don't want to end up with another Vogts or Levein.

[R.Mutt]

The players have to take a big chunk of the blame too. They bottled it in Georgia. Is it the managers fault they couldn't muster 1 shot on target? Is it his fault they couldn't defend that cross ? He picked the same players who got us into a great position, who had performed well up till then.

He didn't shit the bed, the players did.

He picks the players.

Needing a complete overhaul.

[sergie's no1 fan]

He picks the players.

Needing a complete overhaul.

If that's the case every manager in the world should get sacked/released after every bad result?

GS fucked up in Dublin and the players dug him out a hole. They let him down badly in Georgia. They bottled it.

[Monkey Tennis]

You'd have sacked Vogts after reaching the Euro 2004 playoff (and indeed winning the first leg v Netherlands)? Surely not.

Absolutely.

That was a poor group as I recall and failure to make the play-offs then would have been worse than the failure this time. I think I'm right in saying that apart from Germany who topped the group, we shared it with nobody who'd ever been near the finals of a tournament.

Beating Holland at Hampden was indeed a bit of a thrill, but I've a feeling that the second leg might have gone less well.

We ruled ourselves out of the 2006 World Cup by letting him keep his job for the best part of another year.

[HibeeJibee]

Fair enough, but I'm unconvinced that many felt that at the time, as he'd finished 2nd to Germany and made a good fist of the playoff 1st leg. It would have been extraordinary to have sacked a manager for finishing 2nd to Germany then losing a second leg v the Netherlands, and we'd all be thinking it now if he'd been sacked in 2003 or early 2004, IMO. It was the scudding off Hungary then 2pts from 3 games in WC2006 qualifying that finished him.

People cite the friendlies but there's a degree of revisionism in that, IMO, as they'd improved after Cardiff, notably the abandoned game in Spain.

[dogmc]

Absolutely. That was a poor group as I recall and failure to make the play-offs then would have been worse than the failure this time. I think I'm right in saying that apart from Germany who topped the group, we shared it with nobody who'd ever been near the finals of a tournament.Beating Holland at Hampden was indeed a bit of a thrill, but I've a feeling that the second leg might have gone less well.We ruled ourselves out of the 2006 World Cup by letting him keep his job for the best part of another year.

Germany weren't brilliant in that group either....I'm sure if we had beaten Lithuania n faroes away we would have had top spot

[kbp1960]

Just seen tonight's team, my mind is made up... f**k off ginge

[Monkey Tennis]

Fair enough, but I'm unconvinced that many felt that at the time, as he'd finished 2nd to Germany and made a good fist of the playoff 1st leg. It would have been extraordinary to have sacked a manager for finishing 2nd to Germany then losing a second leg v the Netherlands, and we'd all be thinking it now if he'd been sacked in 2003 or early 2004, IMO. It was the scudding off Hungary then 2pts from 3 games in WC2006 qualifying that finished him.

People cite the friendlies but there's a degree of revisionism in that, IMO, as they'd improved after Cardiff, notably the abandoned game in Spain.

I take your point that ostensibly, finishing only behind Germany and then bowing out to the Netherlands is hardly a disgrace. However, I don't think it's revisionism that recognises it had been a lousy campaign and that there was real concern over Vogts' scattergun approach to selection.

Our performances against the Faroes and Lithuania were up there with the worst yet delivered. The list of guys getting capped was ludicrous and there was very little that was cohesive about his regime and period of tenure.

There maybe wasn't a total clamour for his sacking, but I don't think he was universally backed or secure either. Such was the nature of the Amsterdam game, that what preceded it at Hampden, had acquired the appearance of a fluke.

[ShawfieldAggro]

Strachan took over a total disaster, a team who were an utter shambles. The performances have clearly improved during his time & this group was more difficult than the previous World Cup qualification

I didn't think we would qualify because at the moment we lack enough creative quality to break down teams compared to others. Both performances against Georgia and even the game against Gibraltar indicated that

He's tried to gradually bring in a little bit more flair, but he can't turn it all around overnight, especially if he doesn't have the ammunition yet

But sure, let's get rid of him, make him a scapegoat to draw attention away from the fact that virtually every single one of your clubs are responsible for this. Until such time as you stop letting your own teams off the hook with a scouting policy that has favoured "big strong laddies that'll run through brick walls for you" instead of giving a directive that the quality of first touch is the priority, nothing much is likely to change

Even if that policy does change, who's holding all the well paid coaches throughout the game with their coaching certificates from Largs to account? What exactly have they done? Even Georgia showed they were better at passing and moving with the ball while other players knew how to take up position and create space, you know, the basics, than we do

I've even seen some so called coaches on here blaming the attitude of our young players compared to those overseas. Well how convenient, it couldn't possibly be that in fact it's you that's the problem and don't have the ability to do the job correctly.

Of course Strachan like any other manager has made mistakes. But fucking wake up. With the exception of perhaps two or three clubs in this country bringing through some promising talent at least, where is all this quality football getting played at your clubs which means any Scotland manager should be expected to easily qualify for tournaments? Especially given most other countries went back to basics and are now showing us how the game should be played?

All good points. But where do.you find the individual prepared to make such brutal and hard-hitting remarks which, unfortunately, with each passing campaign we clearly need to hear much more explicitly. Vogts, unless im very much mistaken, hinted at this; he didnt enter the job to work with Kevin McNaughton or Gary Holt, he took the job with the aim of overhauling our entire outlook on the sport. This is where the 'career' aspect of a national manager becomes tricky for a country which believes itself to still be relevant, somewhere down the line. On the face of it, Scotland has drawn its squad over the last four years from Celtic, six ir seven middling to lower-half EPL sides (WBA, Norwich, Stoke, Sunderland, Everton, Wigan, Palace) and the odd Championship centre-half. When Wales and Ireland are constructing theirs from largely the same places (perhaps exceptions per side in Ramsey and Bale, and Keane) then its a perfectly reasonable barometer to measure our performance when.directly against them. The Scottish deficiencies are there for all to see after the event....but who would dare make such a radical break?? Smith didnt need one after Berti...he just needed the players to trust him. McLeish continued this, but again, results in the short-term would still not have been sustained had he continued in the job, if those players were genuinely so inept. This is far from the lowest-ability squad i've seen, but they are lacking in so many basic principles (the lackadaisical attitude displayed under Levein isnt far away with some of them) and an apologist in the dugout will not improve this one iota. Perhaps, to sum up, maybe the one man to gain widespread backing is he who would make that judgement call on our whole coaching setup, with a clear blueprint in mind.

[54_and_counting]

4 times, damn you really wanted to reiterate that point lol

[54_and_counting]

also, what were people expecting in this tournament, yes we wanted the playoffs, but did we expect anything better given that we were 4th seeds

did we get a false sense of hope when we took 4 points off ireland, most likely, people were talking about finishing second, yes the georgia result sucked big time, but the 2 draws against poland and the draw away to ireland, it can be agued they 3 points were unexpected and therefore covered the georgia loss

until we get a team that can at least beat better and higher seeded teams at home on a regular basis we will struggle to get anywhere

fact is strachan had a b*****d of a group and took it to the 2nd last game having played all the big teams (had the gibralter games been the double headers we may still have been discussing possible playoff qualifications, and beating gibralter twice in the double header might have gave us a boost, hell even having the gibralter games in place of the georgia games might have turned the group out way differently)