cameron2000 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I feel the GOAT argument is a bit daft mainly as each of the big three have talents that are specifically suited to a surface. We have 65% hard court, 25% clay and 10% grass. If we were to switch those about to reflect each players best surface it would be a different result. Novak’s low error game is suited to hard courts more than the others, however he can be exposed on faster courts. Hence his record at the Australian Open and US Open differs significantly. Think if one of the hard courts was changed to grass or clay, he’d still do okay as his low error games suits any surface that is medium or slow paced. On Grass Federer is the best however he’s lost finals to both Nadal and Djokovic there. Djokovic only has five due to the injuries to Murray. If Murray never had the back or hip injuries Murray would have five. Although changing two of the slams to grass wouldn’t really have that much affect as the years he was dominant he was also winning the hard court slams. Clay is Nadal. 65% clay tournaments with two being clay, Nadal would have over 30 slams and none of them would be close. In slams Nadals record against both is superior, although helped be his ability on clay. Without Federer’s brilliance to drive Nadal, we wouldn’t have been at the level to get here. The emergence of both Murray and Djokovic pushed that level even higher. Without each other Nadal, Federer and Djokovic wouldn’t be as great. Collectively they’re the greatest ever to play the sport. No one can touch them.Australian Open surface is faster the the US Open. The US Open Surface is higher bouncing though meaning that players have more margin for error against him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 21 minutes ago, cameron2000 said: Australian Open surface is faster the the US Open. The US Open Surface is higher bouncing though meaning that players have more margin for error against him. Stand corrected. Certainly explains why he’s made nine finals at each but lost six US Opens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 What’s the factor that makes Nadal so dominant on clay? What’s he got or what does he do that’s different to everyone else? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron2000 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 What’s the factor that makes Nadal so dominant on clay? What’s he got or what does he do that’s different to everyone else?Clay is the bounciest surface and the hotter the conditions the more it kicks ups off the clay so the time of year is also perfect. Nadal has the heaviest top spin forehand in the game and can generate insane kick off the surface to push opponents back and dominate points.His biggest rivals hit much flatter in general which tends to sit up more on clay than skid through the court.Of the next-gen, Tsitsipas and Thiem are best equipped to challenge him but he holds the slight edge still as he can expose their 1 handed backhands (like he did with Federer).Djokovic beating Nadal twice in Paris is probably his number 1 achievement. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, cameron2000 said: Clay is the bounciest surface and the hotter the conditions the more it kicks ups off the clay so the time of year is also perfect. Nadal has the heaviest top spin forehand in the game and can generate insane kick off the surface to push opponents back and dominate points. His biggest rivals hit much flatter in general which tends to sit up more on clay than skid through the court. Of the next-gen, Tsitsipas and Thiem are best equipped to challenge him but he holds the slight edge still as he can expose their 1 handed backhands (like he did with Federer). Djokovic beating Nadal twice in Paris is probably his number 1 achievement. I’d green dot that twice if I could. The only thing you could possibly add to that is everyone knows Rafa is the greatest player on clay. Mentally they’ll always be doubts, even when ahead. Both Federer and Djokovic have lost matches on clay that they should have seen out. The whole net incident at the French Open in 2013, springs to mind immediately. The third set of the French Open last year was an insane level, Djokovic had to summon the best set of his clay career just to finish Nadal off. Nadal injured himself in the process. I personally think the only player on tour that isn’t aware of his record on clay when playing is Fabio Fognini. But he’s a law to himself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Good chance with Nadal's dominance on clay he'll make in 22 slams. That'd be pretty much unassailable. Disagree. Djokovic could easily win Wimbledon, US and next years Oz. I still fancy Nole to finish on top of pile 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 15:18, Loki said: I feel the GOAT argument is a bit daft mainly as each of the big three have talents that are specifically suited to a surface. We have 65% hard court, 25% clay and 10% grass. If we were to switch those about to reflect each players best surface it would be a different result. You make a lot of good points, but on this surely there's an argument that having your game work best on the surfaces used most often is a factor in being the GOAT? *appreciating surfaces have changed over time, but not hugely during the development or career of the players that made this era. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 20 minutes ago, parsforlife said: You make a lot of good points, but on this surely there's an argument that having your game work best on the surfaces used most often is a factor in being the GOAT? *appreciating surfaces have changed over time, but not hugely during the development or career of the players that made this era. Yeah absolutely. You can use different criteria and get a different answer each time. Collectively they are the greatest to ever play the sport. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Loki said: Yeah absolutely. You can use different criteria and get a different answer each time. Collectively they are the greatest to ever play the sport. 100%, and the fact you can move the criteria around and still end up with the same group of players(if in a different order) is part of what's so impressive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Disagree. Djokovic could easily win Wimbledon, US and next years Oz. I still fancy Nole to finish on top of pile Will he be allowed in? Edited January 31, 2022 by Lurkst 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lurkst said: Will he be allowed in? He’s automatically banned from re-entering for 3 years but …. “Mr Hawke's decision to use his ministerial powers under the Migration Act also means Djokovic is now barred from returning to Australia for the next three years, "except in certain circumstances” “Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews noted if Djokovic had a "compelling reason" in the future it would be considered but that it was "all hypothetical at this point". "Any application will be reviewed on its merits,"” ETA: As there is a Federal Election due later this year more likely than not there will be a change of Government. How they are doing in the polls come November/December might determine how they view any application. Edited February 1, 2022 by Eednud 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Yeah, Djokovic will clearly have won the most when they’re all finished. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Its all ifs and buts, but if Djokovic hadn't smacked the lines person with ball and taken his vaccines, he'd already be on 22 imo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryMc93 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Andy Murray on the lookout for a new coach. Best I could manage for available coaches was the lists below and no doubt he'll pick someone not on either. https://www.atptour.com/en/players/coaches https://www.wtatennis.com/coaches/list 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Looks like he will be working with Dani Vallverdu agaIn. And will more than likely be training with Stan Wawrinka in between the tournaments in Rotterdam, Doha and Dubai. In better news Juan Martin Del Potro returns next week. Just hope his body can hold up for some kind of comeback. The sound of his forehand smashing the ball has been sorely missed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Loki said: Looks like he will be working with Dani Vallverdu agaIn. And will more than likely be training with Stan Wawrinka in between the tournaments in Rotterdam, Doha and Dubai. In better news Juan Martin Del Potro returns next week. Just hope his body can hold up for some kind of comeback. The sound of his forehand smashing the ball has been sorely missed. Del Potro is probably my favourite non-Andy Murray tennis player. Just an absolute warrior. He's basically an Argentinian Andy, but even more injury prone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 16:31, Left Back said: What’s the factor that makes Nadal so dominant on clay? What’s he got or what does he do that’s different to everyone else? Ask his doctor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 What’s the factor that makes Nadal so dominant on clay? What’s he got or what does he do that’s different to everyone else?Stamina, top spin and a decent forehand for the high bounce. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 04/02/2022 at 21:40, Mark Connolly said: Del Potro is probably my favourite non-Andy Murray tennis player. Just an absolute warrior. He's basically an Argentinian Andy, but even more injury prone He’s said he’s going to retire after this tournament. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Loki said: He’s said he’s going to retire after this tournament. Maybe he's Andy's new coach? Not sure either of them could handle that much emotion though! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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