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Andy Murray Latest and General Tennis Chat

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Question for the stattos - how would the current rankings look if the slams were excluded? I'm guessing Murray would be miles ahead.

It's difficult due to the amount of points each player defends, but if we purely take away the points each of the top 4 has picked up in the slams over the last 12 months, then

Federer (US - 2000, Aus - 1200, Fre - 2000, Wim - 2000) - Total: 7200

Nadal (US - 720 Aus - 2000, Fre - 180, Wim - 0) - Total: 2900

Murray (US - 1200, Aus - 180, Fre - 360, Wim - 720) - Total: 2460

Djokovic (US - 720,Aus - 360, Fre - 360, Wim - 360) - Total: 1800

So, if you took all those points from everyone's current ranking, it would look....

Federer - 3840

Nadal - 6125

Murray - 6205

Djokovic - 5350

So, yes, Murray would still be number 1*, but not by much. It also shows that the vast majority of Federer's points come in the slams.

*The current no.5, Andy Roddick only has 5800 points as it is, without any of his points removed.

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I said as much a few posts ago. I think it all depends how up for it Federer is.

Crucial that Murray has a decent week in Cincinnati to cement the number 2 seeding for New York.

When are the seedings confirmed and draw made for the US. Is it directly after this?

Just looking at it, so far as I can see, there are no points for last year to defend on this one for any of them. So it's just a case that their worst counting result will drop out isn't it? However, Nadal doesn't actually have anything to drop out because he's only played 16 tournaments in the last 12 months (due to injury) so points earned this week for him go straight on his total.

I think this is a compulsory counting tournament for Murray as it's a Masters 1000 event so whatever he gets in this one will replace the 250 points he's carrying from Doha.

Nadal currently trails Murray by 585 points, which in effect becomes 335 points once Murray's Doha total drops off. He would get 1,000 for winning Cincinnati and 600 for runner up. He'd also get 360 points for a semi finalist whilst Murray is guaranteed 10 points as he's got a bye to the last 32.

So:

If Nadal doesn't make the semi final Murray will remain No 2.

If Nadal loses a semi final Murray need only win one game to stay No 2.

If Nadal finishes runner up, Murray will need to make the semi finals himself to stay in front of him.

If Nadal wins the tournament then Murray will drop to No 3. Even if he were himself to be runner up it would only get him 600 pts, meaning an extra 350 on his record.

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If Nadal doesn't make the semi final Murray will remain No 2.

If Nadal loses a semi final Murray need only win one game to stay No 2.

If Nadal finishes runner up, Murray will need to make the semi finals himself to stay in front of him.

If Nadal wins the tournament then Murray will drop to No 3. Even if he were himself to be runner up it would only get him 600 pts, meaning an extra 350 on his record.

Don't think that is correct.

Reading around the web the consensus seems to be that to claim back the no.2 spot in time for the US Open:

* Nadal must reach the final with Murray losing his first match

OR

* Nadal must win the title with Murray failing to reach the final.

ie if Murray reaches the final it doesn't matter what Rafa does.

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Just looking at it, so far as I can see, there are no points for last year to defend on this one for any of them. So it's just a case that their worst counting result will drop out isn't it?

Last year's Cincy points came off a couple of weeks ago due to the stagger caused by the Olympics. It is, in effect just righting itself after this week.

It's a strange one though. When his Cincy points dropped off on the 3rd Aug, his ranking change was exactly 1000 points down. I'd have thought his next best result would have been re-applied to his ranking (the Doha 250), for that to drop off again after this week. The ranking system can certainly get a bit confusing at times.

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It's difficult due to the amount of points each player defends, but if we purely take away the points each of the top 4 has picked up in the slams over the last 12 months, then

Federer (US - 2000, Aus - 1200, Fre - 2000, Wim - 2000) - Total: 7200

Nadal (US - 720 Aus - 2000, Fre - 180, Wim - 0) - Total: 2900

Murray (US - 1200, Aus - 180, Fre - 360, Wim - 720) - Total: 2460

Djokovic (US - 720,Aus - 360, Fre - 360, Wim - 360) - Total: 1800

So, if you took all those points from everyone's current ranking, it would look....

Federer - 3840

Nadal - 6125

Murray - 6205

Djokovic - 5350

So, yes, Murray would still be number 1*, but not by much. It also shows that the vast majority of Federer's points come in the slams.

*The current no.5, Andy Roddick only has 5800 points as it is, without any of his points removed.

Cheers. Murray ahead but not by as much as I'd thought. Fed's slam record just goes to show how much of a big match player he is.

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Don't think that is correct.

Reading around the web the consensus seems to be that to claim back the no.2 spot in time for the US Open:

* Nadal must reach the final with Murray losing his first match

OR

* Nadal must win the title with Murray failing to reach the final.

ie if Murray reaches the final it doesn't matter what Rafa does.

I've done a bit more research. I think the point I missed is you are only required to count EIGHT Masters 1000 events. I thought they were all mandatory but it seems you only have to count eight of them so if you played nine but did awful in one of them you could ignore it and count a best other tournament but if you'd played only eight you couldn't ignore any of them even if you lost first round in half a dozen of them but won every Master 500 tournament you'd played.

Therefore, as Murray has already played eight it isn't a Mandatory counting tourney for him and won't replace his Doha score. In fact, unless he loses his first match it will replace his Rome score where he did lose his first match and carries 10 points.

So in effect my previous calculation is out by 240 points since Murray will only lose 10 points, not 250.

So yes, you're right. For Nadal to recapture No 2 this week he needs to:

1 - Make the final with Murray losing his first match, or

2 - Win the tournament with Murray not making the final.

However, Nadal is likely to recapture No 2 sometime after Flushing Meadow and probably at it unless Murray makes the final again. He has that spare tournament to count in somewhere along the line for a start where he'll get a complete points addition. Depends how much tennis he's actually going to play at the back end off the season.

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I meant to count the points earned, not to play in. ;) I know Monte Carlo is an optional appearance.

oh i see :ph34r:

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Djorkovic is really not doing great at the moment, about 2 years ago he had 5 or 6 thousand points on Murray all of a sudden he is 3 or 4 thousand down, maybe Murray has just really hit the gas big time or Djorkovic has taken a slight step backwards.

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Djorkovic is really not doing great at the moment, about 2 years ago he had 5 or 6 thousand points on Murray all of a sudden he is 3 or 4 thousand down, maybe Murray has just really hit the gas big time or Djorkovic has taken a slight step backwards.

Why do so many people stick a stray "r" in the middle of Djokovic's name? It's not likeit's one or two people, loads do it. :huh:

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The only negative from Murrays performance the other night was how much DP dominated him in the first set and to an extent in the second set, granted he didn't have many, if any, break points.

A fitter Del Potro would have won that game I think.

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The only negative from Murrays performance the other night was how much DP dominated him in the first set and to an extent in the second set, granted he didn't have many, if any, break points.

A fitter Del Potro would have won that game I think.

For me it's the one big question mark over his game. At times he could take the initiative more rather than standing far back and counter punching. He is doing fantastically well (who would have thought a Scot could go to number 2) but to fully develop and be as good as he could be I think he needs to work on that. Heh, what do I know? :)

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For me it's the one big question mark over his game. At times he could take the initiative more rather than standing far back and counter punching. He is doing fantastically well (who would have thought a Scot could go to number 2) but to fully develop and be as good as he could be I think he needs to work on that. Heh, what do I know? :)

Larry Stefanki waxed lyrical on this after Roddick beat Murray at Wimbledon. It might just be the one thing thats stopping him.

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This is a potential banana skin for Murray. Almagro is certainly a player who has the potential to beat him, despite his modest hard court record.

I don't think it would be an almighty upset if he loses this match.

Edited by StewartyMac

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