One year ago today

[forever_blue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

Interesting pice by the bbc today , their poll seems to rubbish the suggestion that it was just the older generation who voted no in bulk , the 16-24 section of their polls show a clear no victory

[Fide]

I don't regret voting Yes but I wouldn't do it again in a referendum in the next decade. We've made a decision, it was a decisive result and we should work with what we have to give the new Scotland Bill a chance to pass and bed-in, and see how Holyrood handles its extensive new powers.

I have found the rise of identity politics in the last year in Scotland and beyond deeply worrying. Dispassionate, rational, sceptical and critical debate has been displaced at an ever rising rate of noughts by tribal, unthinking, polarised politics. It's the era of the useful idiots, SNP-bad and HopeOverFearite alike, and Scotland is suffering for it. The only difference I can see is that the Yes movement is enthusiastic to co-opt this politics as a means to an end. I think this is frankly dangerous and must be counteracted as strongly as possible. For the foreseeable future that means constructing an alternative to that movement, not supporting its end goal.

^^^ still Yes, imo

[The_Kincardine]

That is fucking brutal. Not quite enough to make me a nationalist.....but not far off it.

[invergowrie arab]

I don't regret voting Yes but I wouldn't do it again in a referendum in the next decade. We've made a decision, it was a decisive result and we should work with what we have to give the new Scotland Bill a chance to pass and bed-in, and see how Holyrood handles its extensive new powers.

I have found the rise of identity politics in the last year in Scotland and beyond deeply worrying. Dispassionate, rational, sceptical and critical debate has been displaced at an ever rising rate of noughts by tribal, unthinking, polarised politics. It's the era of the useful idiots, SNP-bad and HopeOverFearite alike, and Scotland is suffering for it. The only difference I can see is that the Yes movement is enthusiastic to co-opt this politics as a means to an end. I think this is frankly dangerous and must be counteracted as strongly as possible. For the foreseeable future that means constructing an alternative to that movement, not supporting its end goal.

So you think the answer to sharing a platform with people you are not comfortable sharing it with is to abandon principles you believe in?

How very lib dem.

The rest of your post is shite btw. Who are the Yes movement, what are they accommodating and how is Scotland suffering?

Hand wringing, pass the smelling salts dandyism wrapped in concern for democracy when the cosy consensus of what you think politics should be is disturbed.

[H_B]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

Interesting pice by the bbc today , their poll seems to rubbish the suggestion that it was just the older generation who voted no in bulk , the 16-24 section of their polls show a clear no victory

Very interesting.

A bit of a minter for the "just another couple of cold winters" types that desperately tried to pretend it was only pensioners who were to "blame"

[Fide]

Very interesting.

A bit of a minter for the "just another couple of cold winters" types that desperately tried to pretend it was only pensioners who were to "blame"

You really are clutching at straws like Wurzel Gummidge having a w**k.

I'm sure you've gloated in the past about getting overexcited on the findings of one poll.

[ICTChris]

Apparently there were only 30 odd people at the 'Braveheart' demonstration at the Parliament. Clearly 99% of the 45% aren't as big 45%ers as 1% of the 45%.

[H_B]

I'm sure you've gloated in the past about getting overexcited on the findings of one poll.

Why would I gloat about a referendum voting pattern breakdown? (Sorry to introduce the breakdown word - a year after yours)

[Fide]

Why would I gloat about a referendum voting pattern breakdown? (Sorry to introduce the breakdown word - a year after yours)

No need to apologise. I'm thoroughly enoying your gasping-for-attention scramble for relevance on this thread. It's most entertaining.

[Fide]

Pleasing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34289073

Bannockburn voted Britain's most decisive battle in BBC poll

Bannockburn has been named as the most decisive battle fought in the British Isles.

A BBC News Online poll saw the pivotal 1314 clash secure a third of nearly 60,000 votes.

The two-day battle saw Robert the Bruce's army out-manoeuvre and outfight the knights of Edward II, helping preserve the Scottish throne.

It beat off competition from Hastings and the Battle of Britain, which is marking its 75th anniversary.

'Underdog story'

Bannockburn represented a huge change in fortunes for the Scottish throne, which had been under the influence of Edward I.

But his successor, Edward II, faced determined resistance and - despite large and well-equipped army - met a costly defeat near Stirling.

Professor Michael Brown, from the University of St Andrews's School of History, said in his submission for the vote: "Robert's victory meant not just the continuation of the Scottish kingdom but that Scotland would develop separately from the rest of the island for the next 400 years, maintaining and pursuing its own course in terms of government, law, religion and relations with the peoples of Europe."

Reacting to the news, Scott McMaster, manager of the Bannockburn Experience for the National Trust for Scotland said: "It is fantastic that after 700 years this event is still commemorated and remembered.

"It is the classic tale of the underdog, the smaller army defeating the elite force, and this result clearly shows the mark it has left on the Scottish psyche."

[Lynx]

I went to Jellybaby then George Square till about 5 in the morning, was actually pretty gutted at the result but that soon went away when I decided I'd be glad of the result. If we vote yes in a future referendum I'll probably change my mind again

^^^ glory hunter

[Ad Lib]

So you think the answer to sharing a platform with people you are not comfortable sharing it with is to abandon principles you believe in?

No. Neither the Yes nor the No campaigns perfectly or even moderately well encapsulated my principles. My principles are not a priori the possession of either side of this debate. Since the referendum, the associated bodies of the Yes movement have less and less well associated with my views and have in many respects become antagonistic to them.

I supported independence for non nationalist reasons. I supported independence despite them. I saw it as the best path to confederal union. I no longer see it as that.

The rest of your post is shite btw. Who are the Yes movement, what are they accommodating and how is Scotland suffering?

The SNP, the Greens, RISE, Common Weel, The National, those sporting "We are the 45" paraphernalia, Hope over Fear Rallies, everyone to have uttered the phrase "Wastemonster" or "Westminster paedos".

Scotland is suffering because it has a Nationalist government that uses the constitutional question to distract from its dreadful record on education, healthcare, civil liberties and decentralisation in government. It suffers because the SNP get a free pass on being a "left wing" government despite making the decision of a MacBlairite on any question of redistribution of wealth or income falling within their purview. It suffers as Scotland's poorest have college places taken away from them, University maintenance made more expensive to pay for the tuition of people like me.

It suffers when poor school exam results, when scrutinised, are met with "stop talking Scotland's teachers and pupils down". It suffers when local police and fire stations and Sheriff courts are shut while the council tax of people in mansions is frozen. It suffers when police strategies of stop and search get more intrusive than London. It suffers when the SNP refuses to use the Parliament's considerable powers to help people and blames this on Westminster, determined that the inconvenience of higher taxes on Scots is more important than protecting them from poverty so they can make a political point.

Scottish politics has replaced one fraud with another under the cloak of independence. The SNP is a tribute act for 1990s to early 2000s Scottish Labour once we strip back the nationalism. And Scotland deserves and needs better.

Hand wringing, pass the smelling salts dandyism wrapped in concern for democracy when the cosy consensus of what you think politics should be is disturbed.

Whatever.

[Swampy]

MacBlairite

*inhales through teeth*

[Fide]

No. Neither the Yes nor the No campaigns perfectly or even moderately well encapsulated my principles. My principles are not a priori the possession of either side of this debate. Since the referendum, the associated bodies of the Yes movement have less and less well associated with my views and have in many respects become antagonistic to them.

I supported independence for non nationalist reasons. I supported independence despite them. I saw it as the best path to confederal union. I no longer see it as that.

If you're not a fan of nationalist Governments, you'll be appalled at the Westminster reaction to Corbyn not singing the British national anthem then?

Scotland is suffering because it has a Nationalist government that uses the constitutional question to distract from its dreadful record on education, healthcare, civil liberties and decentralisation in government. It suffers because the SNP get a free pass on being a "left wing" government despite making the decision of a MacBlairite on any question of redistribution of wealth or income falling within their purview. It suffers as Scotland's poorest have college places taken away from them, University maintenance made more expensive to pay for the tuition of people like me.

It suffers when poor school exam results, when scrutinised, are met with "stop talking Scotland's teachers and pupils down". It suffers when local police and fire stations and Sheriff courts are shut while the council tax of people in mansions is frozen. It suffers when police strategies of stop and search get more intrusive than London. It suffers when the SNP refuses to use the Parliament's considerable powers to help people and blames this on Westminster, determined that the inconvenience of higher taxes on Scots is more important than protecting them from poverty so they can make a political point.

The SNP's "dreadful record"? LOLZ.

Scotland has the best performing health service in the UK.

Sheriff courts are not shut. I deal with them in work every day and they're very much open for business.

Why did you mention London in comparison with Scottish police searches? What yardstick do you have for this comparison?

Also, McBlairite?

I could go on, but JESUS.

It's no wonder people don't vote for your utter irrelevance of a party. Barely scraping double digits in council ward elections, and it's all down to supercilious morons like you and your puddle drinker of a leader spouting shite such as:

Willie Rennie

@willie_rennie

7h

What's inevitable is Alex Salmond will always gibber on about #indyref no matter what the problems in police & NHS twitter.com/nickeardley/st…

I see he also retweeted that absolute loonball Historywoman today. This is the kind of company your leader is keeping.

And breathe.

[gavin_3110]

Saying it as it is Ad Lib, careful now, that won't go down well with the sabre-rattling militant yesist types on here.

[Swampy]

Saying it as it is Ad Lib, careful now, that won't go down well with the sabre-rattling militant yesist types on here.

Don't think you know what sabre-rattling actually is there, chief.

[Antiochas III]

Scotland is suffering because it has a Nationalist government that uses the constitutional question to distract from its dreadful record on education, healthcare, civil liberties and decentralisation in government.

There are 3 parties at Holyrood that bring up the constitutional question at every opportunity, not one of them is the Scottish National Party

[Swampy]

I can see where Ad Lib is coming from. If groupthink is a problem on both sides, it obviously makes the most sense to passionately support the side that ensures the status quo.

[Ad Lib]

If you're not a fan of nationalist Governments, you'll be appalled at the Westminster reaction to Corbyn not singing the British national anthem then?

Yes. And Alex Salmond's faux outrage at it.

The SNP's "dreadful record"? LOLZ.

Scotland has the best performing health service in the UK.

Sheriff courts are not shut. I deal with them in work every day and they're very much open for business.

No it doesn't. And several Sheriff courts have been subject to closures and amalgamations, massively increasing worked, delays and reducing accessibility. Just look to Aberdeenshire and the Borders if you don't believe me.

Why did you mention London in comparison with Scottish police searches? What yardstick do you have for this comparison?

It's the capital city, the most obvious target for a terrorist attack, and the next highest stop-and-search policing area in the UK.

[Ad Lib]

I can see where Ad Lib is coming from. If groupthink is a problem on both sides, it obviously makes the most sense to passionately support the side that ensures the status quo.

I don't passionately support anyone or anything.