Scotlands last genuine world class player?

[BFTD]

12 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Hang on a minute, did someone really say Alan Hutton meaning the one that used to play for Rangers or is there another one that I've missed?

It's a ludicrous shout, considering some of the other candidate to come out of Rangers in the Noughties.

[Monkey Tennis]

On 22/11/2017 at 11:03, ICTChris said:

Kenny Dalglish played for Liverpool from 1977 to 1990, the last four years he was player-manager and spent more time in the dugout than on the pitch so excluding those, lets look at the period 1977-1986.

During this period Liverpool won three European Cups (1977, 1981 and 1984) and finished runners-up once (1985).  They also won it in 1976, the season before Dalglish was signed.  It's fair to say that they were one of the leading teams in European football during this period.  During this time period, he won five English league titles, a time when English football was dominant - Nottingham Forest (x2) and Aston Villa also won European cups, Ipswich Town and Tottenham won the UEFA Cup and Everton won the Cup Winners Cup during this period.  Arsenal also lost a Cup Winners Cup final.  

individually Dalglish played fifty or more games in all of these seasons - in five of the first six seasons he scored more than twenty goals in all competitions.  He won three English player of the year awards (two from the Football Writers Association, one from the PFA) and was runner up in the European Footballer of the Year award in 1983.  

I don't really see how anyone could dispute that Liverpool were a world class team  or that Dalglish was a world class player during this time period.  

While Dalglish was clearly World Class by any sensible criteria, you've got some factual inaccuracies in there.

Liverpool did not win the European Cup in 1976, but did win the UEFA Cup that year.

Dalglish did join them in 1977, but only after they'd won that season's European Cup in Keegan's farewell appearance before being replaced.  They did however also win in 1978 with Dalglish scoring the winner at Wembley.

[ecto]

Law, Baxter, Dalglish, McGrain, Jimmy Johnstone

[John Lambies Doos]

Law, Baxter, Dalglish, McGrain, Jimmy Johnstone

And Chic Charnley

[footiefanboy]

On ‎22‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 22:04, ecto said:

Law, Baxter, Dalglish, McGrain, Jimmy Johnstone

In terms of criteria, the case for Denis Law being 'officially' world class was proved in 1964 when he was selected for a Rest of the World XI to play England as part of the English FA Centenary celebrations.

Edited to add: ...and he scored.

Edited January 25, 2018 by footiefanboy

[Monkey Tennis]

43 minutes ago, footiefanboy said:

In terms of criteria, the case for Denis Law being 'officially' world class was proved in 1964 when he was selected for a Rest of the World XI to play England as part of the English FA Centenary celebrations.

Edited to add: ...and he scored.

Gordon Strachan and Terry Butcher received a similar accolade in 1986.  

It's not an entirely reliable - and certainly not an official - criterion.

[footiefanboy]

Hence the fact that 'officially' was in inverted commas.  Can you tell me what the official criteria are?

In the assumed absence of official criteria, I would have thought that being selected for a Rest of the World XI would be as close as you could come being classified as world class.

[Monkey Tennis]

12 minutes ago, footiefanboy said:

Hence the fact that 'officially' was in inverted commas.  Can you tell me what the official criteria are?

In the assumed absence of official criteria, I would have thought that being selected for a Rest of the World XI would be as close as you could come being classified as world class.

I'd have thought such a thing was probably even more subjective than the speculation most of us are indulging in on here.

I'd imagine a geographical balance to such line ups was sought, that would not truly reflect players' respective statures.

[footiefanboy]

The squad was made up of players from South America and Europe with a South American coach. Quite a wide geographical spread, considering that few players at that time had emerged from Africa, Asia or the Middle East.

As you agree that there are no 'official' criteria, much of this must be opinion based but the opinion of those who selected the squad would perhaps be more valid than many of the partisan comments on here.

Slightly harsh that the fact that Denis Law was selected as a World XI player doesn't give him an edge over the likes of Alan Hutton a sometime Rangers player.

However, we are all entitled to our opinion and I respect yours that Law was not world class even though I disagree.

[Monkey Tennis]

23 minutes ago, footiefanboy said:

The squad was made up of players from South America and Europe with a South American coach. Quite a wide geographical spread, considering that few players at that time had emerged from Africa, Asia or the Middle East.

As you agree that there are no 'official' criteria, much of this must be opinion based but the opinion of those who selected the squad would perhaps be more valid than many of the partisan comments on here.

Slightly harsh that the fact that Denis Law was selected as a World XI player doesn't give him an edge over the likes of Alan Hutton a sometime Rangers player.

However, we are all entitled to our opinion and I respect yours that Law was not world class even though I disagree.

Law was clearly World Class.  I've said so already on the thread.

So was Dalglish.

 

Edited to add:  in fact we're in total agreement here.  My first post on page 4 identifies Law  and Dalglish, as does yours on page 12, where you also go on about this World XI.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Monkey Tennis

[footiefanboy]

How about Jim Baxter?  He was also in the same squad ( albeit as a sub) but perhaps not so clear cut. Every time I saw him he was hugely impressive...certainly has to be considered?

[Gordopolis]

Andy Robertson rated 9/10 in last night's demolition of Man City, with the Kop singing his name again. If (and it's a big if) Liverpool go on to win the Champions' League with him continuing to play such a pivotal part, then I reckon this thread can be closed.

[ONeils40yarder]

Whether he wins the Champions League or not, Andy Robertson is on the verge of being World-class. With the way he has improved since he joined Liverpool, the effort and desire he shows and the rave reviews that he is getting from everyone who watches him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being signed by one of the big Spanish sides

[woof!]

1 hour ago, ONeils40yarder said:

Whether he wins the Champions League or not, Andy Robertson is on the verge of being World-class. With the way he has improved since he joined Liverpool, the effort and desire he shows and the rave reviews that he is getting from everyone who watches him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being signed by one of the big Spanish sides

Robertson is terrific but i don’t think he's world class because he doesn’t have world class technique. To qualify, such a player must be able to make the crowd giggle in wonder in the same way a magician can.

[senorsoupe]

5 hours ago, woof! said:

Robertson is terrific but i don’t think he's world class because he doesn’t have world class technique. To qualify, such a player must be able to make the crowd giggle in wonder in the same way a magician can.

That's a view that's a bit stacked against defenders and goalies.  Robertson may not have mazy runs weaving through defenders but his inch perfect crosses for Liverpool's front 3 are a joy to behold for anyone who knows a bit about football.

Edited April 5, 2018 by senorsoupe

[woof!]

2 hours ago, senorsoupe said:

That's a view that's a bit stacked against defenders and goalies.  Robertson may not have mazy runs weaving through defenders but his inch perfect crosses for Liverpool's front 3 are a joy to behold for anyone who knows a bit about football.

That’s why i said he was terrific.

[Bishop Briggs]

On 22/11/2017 at 19:19, senorsoupe said:

Don't forget that the Liverpool of the era also included Alan Hansen who was a pretty excellent defender!  Probably had better "World Class" credentials than Souness

I agree belatedly. Hansen was world class IMO.  

But Scotland managers often picked Miller and McLeish ahead of Hansen. 

Just look at their respective number of caps.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Bishop Briggs

[djchapsticks]

Think Robertson certainly has the tools to be considered world class in time. At only 24 he will carry on improving as well. 

Based on his form this season, there aren't many first XIs in the world he wouldn't walk into. 

[1320Lichtie]

I love Robertson but he’s not anywhere near world class and don’t think he ever will be. Even if Liverpool do win the Champions League they’ll more than likely have that average goalie in the sticks, TAA or Joe Gomez, Lovren, Henderson, Milner and Oxlade Chamberlain in the team. All good players but nowhere near world class. Then a front 3 of Mane, Salah and Firmino, again 3 very good players and on a level above the rest of the team but again the only one close to world class would be Salah.

 

[Christophe]

On 05/04/2018 at 22:18, woof! said:

Robertson is terrific but i don’t think he's world class because he doesn’t have world class technique. To qualify, such a player must be able to make the crowd giggle in wonder in the same way a magician can.

Giggle. In. Wonder.