strichener Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 EXACTLY !!!!!! I would agree entirely with that. At the moment there are no clear answers to the question so there is a chance that both sides are thinking they are correct. My arguement is against those that rally on about THE VOW not being kept when they can give no definative answer as to what part of it they are speaking about, and that includes Andrew Robertson. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/scotland-promised-devo-supermax-london-spooked Now something has snapped. London says that Scotland, however it votes, can have autonomy that was beyond its wildest dreams a decade ago. We have gone overnight from devo max to “devo supermax”. A new “federation of Britain” is born, possibly including Wales and other provinces. Not since the disintegration of the British Empire has local discontent so traumatised the mindset of a London government. If I were a Scot I would not trust an inch of this. Devo supermax looks full of holes. It is mostly about tax, and yet Scotland will not get the one economic game-changer, corporation tax, nor has London backed down on currency. It will not get full income tax flexibility, such as varying just the top rate. It will not get oil tax or VAT. Elsewhere it already has health, housing, education and police. No one wants to touch welfare benefits for fear of mass migration of the poor. What is left, short of full sovereignty? Nor has London dared moot the other side of the equation, the 59-MP question. Devo supermax must cut drastically the number of MPs at Westminster and limit their voting power. The Treasury would also demand the subvention be “adjusted” for local revenue. Any such changes will in the short term be expensive for Scotland. But then London has been shouting this for a year, and Scotland has merely said “bring it on”. The truth is that a good half of the Scots have had enough of English rule and want to see the back of it, period. When divorce is in the air, remorse, generosity, promises of good behaviour fall on deaf ears. This relationship is over. We can only hope they “stay good friends”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 More people voted no because they did not trust salmond than those who voted no because of the vow. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2015/mar/26/the-vow-was-not-a-decisive-factor-in-scots-voting-no-to-indepedence Yep I can believe that. Seems mad to think people would decide on their Country's fate on the basis of one person but there you go. The people of Scotland were made promises, there will be plenty of NO voters who don't care about extra powers and may even want less power up here, but there will be some who have been duped. They would have said anything to prevent people voting YES and now they have to deliver their promises or people like myself will just keep bringing up the issue. It isn't going to go away, especially when clowns like Gordon Brown come out and say oh the vow hasn't been delivered. Duh really, who seen that coming? That play on peoples mind before the next Indyref vote and it will not be forgotten. Cameron doesn't care anyway, he done his bit by "saving the Union" under his watch. I don't think the Tories care if we go Independent, in fact it would play into their hands if we go Independent under a Labour government so they can blame Labour for the break up of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowthennowthen Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 What happened to Super Devo Max? If only it had been on the ballot paper then the ball would have been in our court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Yet the Ukippers want rid of Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Why do you think those with nuclear weapons won't attack us, because we have Dad's army or because we have fancy helicopters or tanks. No, because we HAVE nuclear weapons. Do you think the USA would have attacked Japan in 1945 if Japan could have retaliated in kind, no. What prevents China from attacking Japan ? What prevents Russia from attacking Germany or any of the Scandinavian countries ? Why hasn't Israel nuked Iran yet ? Your argument is shite. America and Russia have enough to kill every person 10x over. No one else matters and absolutely NO ONE will use them because everyone else will sit up and take notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 They are not at war Mr Einstein. WhIch country with nukes are we at war with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Or tits come in pairs. f**k up bigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Anyone who actually voted NO because of the Vow is a slack jawed yokel anyway who will be regretting it by now. How many people did though? Does anyone know anyone who this applies to? Every poll bar one showed a 'No' vote. This idea that Scotland was duped out of Independence by the vow is a total myth. It was going to be No anyway. I voted Yes and want us to have more powers, but the idea that we somehow voted for more powers - which seems to be line that is repeated - has absolutely no substance to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 They are not at war Mr Einstein. WTF. Care to reply to my point. What the f**k has war got to do with whether Britain needs a nuclear deterrent ? I don't know if you've noticed but the UK only goes to war with countries that can barely scrape 10 tanks together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 When you say a little more bullish, can you expand? I thought there was a definite change in tone. A very subtle difference in attitude from Sturgeon today. I may be wrong but I think Indyref2 may come quicker than most imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Or tits come in pairs. You're the single biggest tit on the entire forum so that theory is disproved straight away. Why do you think those with nuclear weapons won't attack us, because we have Dad's army or because we have fancy helicopters or tanks. No, because we HAVE nuclear weapons. Do you think the USA would have attacked Japan in 1945 if Japan could have retaliated in kind, no. Why doesn't Liechtenstein get attacked? Or Sweden? Or Portugal? Or Denmark? Or Switzerland? What a ridiculous attempt at proving a point brainiac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Psychosis Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 How many people did though? Does anyone know anyone who this applies to? Every poll bar one showed a 'No' vote. This idea that Scotland was duped out of Independence by the vow is a total myth. It was going to be No anyway. I voted Yes and want us to have more powers, but the idea that we somehow voted for more powers - which seems to be line that is repeated - has absolutely no substance to it. You'll probably get pelters for that but it's bang on. People didn't vote No because of the vow. They were going to vote No anyway. I guess part of the reason the Yes side keep banging on about it is because *they* are so interested in further powers for Scotland that they can't conceive that anyone else might think differently. One of the biggest problems with the Yes campaign was that it became a massive echo-chamber of Yessers telling each other what they wanted to hear. There were all the massive Yes rallies that I'm sure were lots of fun for all involved but that time and effort would have been better spent talking to people that weren't already converted to the cause. One of the ways this has manifested itself after the referendum is that Yes supporters keep telling each other that it was "the vow" and the "fake promise of more powers" that did for them. They might be better served to go and speak to some No supporters and actually find out why they voted No. I reckon 95% of people at my work voted no (I work in the defence industry) and not a single one has mentioned The Vow as being a reason. Lots of chat about currency, oil prices, distrust of the white paper economics, distrust of the SNP, a feeling of belonging to the UK as much as Scotland but literally no mentions of further powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Brit Nats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 How many people did though? Does anyone know anyone who this applies to? Every poll bar one showed a 'No' vote. This idea that Scotland was duped out of Independence by the vow is a total myth. It was going to be No anyway. I voted Yes and want us to have more powers, but the idea that we somehow voted for more powers - which seems to be line that is repeated - has absolutely no substance to it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If the no side had felt confident that they would win then it wouldn't have ever seen the light of day. Now that it has, the parties should be held to it. Whilst the majority of yes/no polls were in the favour of no, polls offering devo max showed a preference for this over both the status quo and independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 You'll probably get pelters for that but it's bang on. People didn't vote No because of the vow. They were going to vote No anyway. I guess part of the reason the Yes side keep banging on about it is because *they* are so interested in further powers for Scotland that they can't conceive that anyone else might think differently. One of the biggest problems with the Yes campaign was that it became a massive echo-chamber of Yessers telling each other what they wanted to hear. There were all the massive Yes rallies that I'm sure were lots of fun for all involved but that time and effort would have been better spent talking to people that weren't already converted to the cause. One of the ways this has manifested itself after the referendum is that Yes supporters keep telling each other that it was "the vow" and the "fake promise of more powers" that did for them. They might be better served to go and speak to some No supporters and actually find out why they voted No. I reckon 95% of people at my work voted no (I work in the defence industry) and not a single one has mentioned The Vow as being a reason. Lots of chat about currency, oil prices, distrust of the white paper economics, distrust of the SNP, a feeling of belonging to the UK as much as Scotland but literally no mentions of further powers. Vow didn't make a huge difference but i'm sure I saw some research that said some 5 to 10% voted on the back of it. Could've been enough to get us over the line. Anyway, it'll go to show that we can't trust London next time - for those who still think Cameron, Miliband/ Corbyn etc are somehow more capable than Sturgeon and Co. The current establishment guns aimed at Corbyn won't be as powerful next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 You're the single biggest tit on the entire forum so that theory is disproved straight away. Why doesn't Liechtenstein get attacked? Or Sweden? Or Portugal? Or Denmark? Or Switzerland? What a ridiculous attempt at proving a point brainiac. Er.... cos these countries and wee and poor and no-one likes them anyway... No, they want to invade and steal our BBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Ever cared to think about why the Russians or Chinese wouldn't dare attack us, no, thought not. Don't become a military strategist. Which unfortunate countries have China and Russia been nuking lately ? That's right. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigOutYourSoul Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 How many people did though? Does anyone know anyone who this applies to? Every poll bar one showed a 'No' vote. This idea that Scotland was duped out of Independence by the vow is a total myth. It was going to be No anyway. I voted Yes and want us to have more powers, but the idea that we somehow voted for more powers - which seems to be line that is repeated - has absolutely no substance to it. This hits he nail on the head, IMO. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarusQPFC Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Been trolling some moronic sevco fans on Facebook who say the streets should be covered in union jacks all year round, real class acts these people. Compared them to nazis and they didn't take well to it. Surprises cause the majority of these muppets are the Britain First type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Been trolling some moronic sevco fans on Facebook who say the streets should be covered in union jacks all year round, real class acts these people. Compared them to nazis and they didn't take well to it. Surprises cause the majority of these muppets are the Britain First type I would absolutely love to walk on the Ibrox pitch during a match with a butchers apron to set fire to the fucker, just for the seethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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