54_and_counting Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hazard won young player of the year in France the season when he was 17/18. He was already good enough to play for Belgium at that age. Who do you suggest that Scotland call up? jordan rhodes has had numerous honours at club level, no one is asking for 17 and 18yo's to be flung in at the deep end, but to think we have a squad full of late 20's early 30's who are clearly not good enough, and they havent been for a while now, why should they continue to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 fletcher has averaged 1 in just over 3 games at club level throughout his career, jordan rhodes has managed 1 in 2 at club level rhodes has scored 3 goals in 13 appearances for scotland, fletcher has scored 4 in 23 And? So is Jordan Rhodes a better player than Steven Fletcher then in your opinion? Rhodes can't even get in the squad, and for good reason. He looks like an absolute diddy at international level against any half decent side, only decent when he's in the box and the one absolute sitter he had against Gibraltar was fluffed anyway. Yes Fletcher has had some bad games but he's also been very good at times and we wouldn't have scored in either Germany or Poland (1st goal) if it wasn't for him. You're the type of boy that would've been screaming for Kris Boyd to play the lone striker for Scotland over Kenny Miller too aren't you? Coz Boydy Scorez Goalz!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 And? So is Jordan Rhodes a better player than Steven Fletcher then in your opinion? Rhodes can't even get in the squad, and for good reason. He looks like an absolute diddy at international level against any half decent side, only decent when he's in the box and the one absolute sitter he had against Gibraltar was fluffed anyway. Yes Fletcher has had some bad games but he's also been very good at times and we wouldn't have scored in either Germany or Poland (1st goal) if it wasn't for him. You're the type of boy that would've been screaming for Kris Boyd to play the lone striker for Scotland over Kenny Miller too aren't you? Coz Boydy Scorez Goalz!!! what have boyd and miller got to do with it currently fletcher has a worse scoring record for scotland than rhodes, yet you say he's a didy at international level, fletcher has offered us nothing as a goalscorer, he's there to get us goals and has scored 1 goal in every 6 international appearances, thats a shocking record and would rightly be dropped at club level oh wait, he cant even get into the worst sunderland team in a decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 steven fletcher has averaged 1 goal in just over 3 games in his career, jordan rhodes has managed around 1 in 2 yet it would take an army to get fletcher out of the scottish team right now no matter his performances hazard had potential at 17 for the national side, no one knew how good he would be on a consistent basis until he consistently got games, belgium took a chance on his potential and it paid off, instead we'll likely go into the next qualifying campaign with a squad full of over 30's because scotland arent willing to take that chance Yes, but the reason 25 year old Rhodes isn't getting a chance isn't because of his age, it's because Strachan doesn't rate him, same as he doesn't rate 24 year old Johnny Russell and 29 year old Ross McCormack. Strachan's favouritism to certain players is an entirely separate issue from the age debate: the only player you can honestly say isn't getting a fair shot because they're young is Andy Robertson, and even at that Robertson has been starting games, he's just been overlooked for inferior older players when we're playing stronger opposition. I agree that Fletcher should be dropped, but that really has nothing to do with this thread: he should be dropped for shite performances, not being too old. Belgium didn't call Hazard up based on his potential, they called him up based on his ability at that time. He got his first call up having established himself in the first team at Lille, then by the time he progressed from friendly starts and sub appearances to starting competitive games for Belgium he was established as one of of the best players in France. That made him better than their alternatives in the same position. They didn't just say 'this guy looks like he could be a world class player, let's just launch him in now to give him experience even though he's not better than what we have', which is what people on this forum have been demanding when they've called for Callum Paterson instead of Alan Hutton, Ryan Jack instead of Scott Brown, Scott Bain instead of the other goalkeepers, Kenny McLean instead of Shaun Maloney, etc etc. I'm all for young players being given experience through friendlies and sub appearances so that they're not getting their first cap only when they reach the point that they're good enough to start every game, but some of the calls on here since the Georgia game have been downright ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yes, but the reason 25 year old Rhodes isn't getting a chance isn't because of his age, it's because Strachan doesn't rate him, same as he doesn't rate 24 year old Johnny Russell and 29 year old Ross McCormack. Strachan's favouritism to certain players is an entirely separate issue from the age debate: the only player you can honestly say isn't getting a fair shot because they're young is Andy Robertson, and even at that Robertson has been starting games, he's just been overlooked for inferior older players when we're playing stronger opposition. I agree that Fletcher should be dropped, but that really has nothing to do with this thread: he should be dropped for shite performances, not being too old. thats kinda my point, the shite older players are continually picked because.... well f**k knows, it seems the managers have tried the odd young player, not had the best performance out of them and shat it to give them a consistent run in the scotland team to improve, robertson is a brilliant example, had macnamara not taken the chance, then steve bruce, scotlands future left back might well still be plying his trade in scotlands lower leagues, but gaffers took a chance despite his young age and lack of experience, and over time it has proved to be worthwhile, litchie says rhodes is a diddy at international level, after 13 games, most from the subs bench he has that opinion yet still thinks fletcher after 23 games and less goals is our best striker, no wonder we dont have a consistent squad for numerous qualifying campaigns as we always look for the short term solution Belgium didn't call Hazard up based on his potential, they called him up based on his ability at that time. He got his first call up having established himself in the first team at Lille, then by the time he progressed from friendly starts and sub appearances to starting competitive games for Belgium he was established as one of of the best players in France. That made him better than their alternatives in the same position. They didn't just say 'this guy looks like he could be a world class player, let's just launch him in now to give him experience even though he's not better than what we have', which is what people on this forum have been demanding when they've called for Callum Paterson instead of Alan Hutton, Ryan Jack instead of Scott Brown, Scott Bain instead of the other goalkeepers, Kenny McLean instead of Shaun Maloney, etc etc. again my point is that we surely cannot have a country full of scots along with a scattering in other countries who are no better than the current lot that have failed not once or twice, but some have failed for 3 or more qualifying campaigns now, if the current squad are the best scotland has at this very time then scotland are in trouble for the next qualifiers as a year isnt going to suddenly produce a new scotland squad, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 f**k knows what happened there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yes, but the reason 25 year old Rhodes isn't getting a chance isn't because of his age, it's because Strachan doesn't rate him, same as he doesn't rate 24 year old Johnny Russell and 29 year old Ross McCormack. Strachan's favouritism to certain players is an entirely separate issue from the age debate: the only player you can honestly say isn't getting a fair shot because they're young is Andy Robertson, and even at that Robertson has been starting games, he's just been overlooked for inferior older players when we're playing stronger opposition. I agree that Fletcher should be dropped, but that really has nothing to do with this thread: he should be dropped for shite performances, not being too old. thats kinda my point, the shite older players are continually picked because.... well f**k knows, it seems the managers have tried the odd young player, not had the best performance out of them and shat it to give them a consistent run in the scotland team to improve, robertson is a brilliant example, had macnamara not taken the chance, then steve bruce, scotlands future left back might well still be plying his trade in scotlands lower leagues, but gaffers took a chance despite his young age and lack of experience, and over time it has proved to be worthwhile, litchie says rhodes is a diddy at international level, after 13 games, most from the subs bench he has that opinion yet still thinks fletcher after 23 games and less goals is our best striker, no wonder we dont have a consistent squad for numerous qualifying campaigns as we always look for the short term solution Belgium didn't call Hazard up based on his potential, they called him up based on his ability at that time. He got his first call up having established himself in the first team at Lille, then by the time he progressed from friendly starts and sub appearances to starting competitive games for Belgium he was established as one of of the best players in France. That made him better than their alternatives in the same position. They didn't just say 'this guy looks like he could be a world class player, let's just launch him in now to give him experience even though he's not better than what we have', which is what people on this forum have been demanding when they've called for Callum Paterson instead of Alan Hutton, Ryan Jack instead of Scott Brown, Scott Bain instead of the other goalkeepers, Kenny McLean instead of Shaun Maloney, etc etc. again my point is that we surely cannot have a country full of scots along with a scattering in other countries who are no better than the current lot that have failed not once or twice, but some have failed for 3 or more qualifying campaigns now, if the current squad are the best scotland has at this very time then scotland are in trouble for the next qualifiers as a year isnt going to suddenly produce a new scotland squad, Where was this pish when the older players beat Ireland or drew with Poland? Absolutely cretinous argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Where was this pish when the older players beat Ireland or drew with Poland? Absolutely cretinous argument what good will that do if we still finish 4th imagine finishing behind a team that we took 4 points in 2 games against, thats a fucking shambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 imagine finishing behind a team that we took 4 points in 2 games against, thats a fucking shambles That literally makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 what good will that do if we still finish 4th imagine finishing behind a team that we took 4 points in 2 games against, thats a fucking shambles Wales took six points from us in the last campaign but still finished below us. Don't know why they didn't just drop Bale, Ramsey and Williams as a consequence of that shambles, TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Wales took six points from us in the last campaign but still finished below us. Don't know why they didn't just drop Bale, Ramsey and Williams as a consequence of that shambles, TBH. maybe that vital experience for the younger players is what got them on the verge of qualifying this time around brown and co have had their chances, and failed everytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 maybe that vital experience for the younger players is what got them on the verge of qualifying this time around brown and co have had their chances, and failed everytime Or maybe they just picked the best team available to them in every game and failed to qualify from that group because it had better teams than them in it, whereas they now have a much easier group and they have one of the best players in the world dragging them to wins against Cyprus and Andorra, as well as having two admittedly excellent results with Belgium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 So much fail from 53 and counting here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 So much fail from 53 and counting here still waiting on you providing evidence that steven fletcher, the man who cannot even get a game for sunderland, is currently our best striker when he doesnt even have the best scoring ratio from our current options up front? in your own time mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 still waiting on you providing evidence that steven fletcher, the man who cannot even get a game for sunderland, is currently our best striker when he doesnt even have the best scoring ratio from our current options up front? in your own time mate Well he starts every game for a reason, because he's our best striker... It's as clear as day he's a better option than Rhodes for Scotland, the guy that can't even get in the squad. Maybe you should apply for the managers job. You could have us pumped and finishing bottom of the group every campaign but atleast some young guys will get some experience eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 still waiting on you providing evidence that steven fletcher, the man who cannot even get a game for sunderland, is currently our best striker when he doesnt even have the best scoring ratio from our current options up front? in your own time mate Watch the goals against Germany and Poland that he had a key hand in and tell which other scotland forward has produced that kind of assist against that quality of opposition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Watch the goals against Germany and Poland that he had a key hand in and tell which other scotland forward has produced that kind of assist against that quality of opposition Good assists, but tbf, only fletcher has had the chance to play vs those teams, so its a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Good assists, but tbf, only fletcher has had the chance to play vs those teams, so its a moot point. He's also done it against Chelsea, liverpool, man city etc to get him into that position though. Not one of our other strikers has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I've already called this out as revisionism, yet you still persist with this line. Vogts didn't throw the likes of Faddy, Gordon, and Fletcher in. He was quite cautious about it. By the point he put them in they were already some of the best players we had. It would taken a massive amount of incompetence to not put them in the team when he did. He took us to a playoff by finishing above Lithuania, Iceland, and the Faroe Islands. No Scotland manager has failed to do that. We even managed to draw in the Faroes and lose in Lithuania. Can you really claim that Berti did anything for us that any other manager wouldn't have managed? It was a disaster that plummeted us down the rankings and meant that our best team in many years has to try to qualify from a group with Italy, France, and Ukraine. I disagree, I don't think I'm the one guilty of revisionism here! Bertie took McFadden as a 19 year old to a competition where faddy got drunk/ missed a flight or whatever. The play off 1-0 game v Holland in 2003, a massively important game for our international side: Darren Fletcher was 19 years old, James McFadden was 20 years old. Neither were established first team regulars at their clubs so it was quite bold of Vogts to throw them into a game like that. I'm not arguing Vogts was a success as a manager here by the way! Anyway, we may well end up going in circles here so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 He's also done it against Chelsea, liverpool, man city etc to get him into that position though. Not one of our other strikers has Not recently he hasn't. He's mostly warming Sunderland's bench and doing f**k all for them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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