After This Campaign

[Gordopolis]

Bain

Patterson

Hanley

f**k knows

Robertson

Armstrong

Jack

Fraser

Gauld

Allan

Watt

Are the uncapped younger players who seem like they have the most potential in each position but obviously they won't all ever play, you'll still get another 3/4 years out of a lot of guys in the current set up and new guys will come through, people you wouldn't even think of that are 24 and under will end up improving and pushing themselves into the team. Who thought Naisy/Hutton/Hanley/Morrison/MacArthur/Anya etc etc would all be such crucial players for us when they were 21/22/23? Not many I imagine.

Truth of it is people's guesses including mine will be nowhere near the reality. Just look at how other team predictions have gone. The one the pundits did on England's Euro 08 team in particular was hilarious. I also remember seeing a Scotland team prediction done in about 08/09 saying Garry Kenneth would be playing for us in WC 2014 Brazil...

There'll be players coming through from nowhere and taking their place in the team just like they always do.

Only certainties for me for say 5 year time are Watt/Armstrong/Fraser/Gauld/Hanley and Robertson.

This? http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/fulham/178016/back-in-2007-daily-mail-predicted-their-england-team-of-the-future.html

[Gordopolis]

One thing I notice is that we're talking about guys like Armstrong (23), Jack (23), GMS (25), Russell (25). These guys are not kids, they're almost halfway into their careers. I know it sounds fanciful to say 'just cap a promising looking 19/20/21 year old and keep picking him regardless of club form', but there are a couple of positions where we could - if brave enough - do that: Gauld and Robertson being the most obvious ones - possibly Tony Watt too (though I think he's still teetering between potentially very good or actually average - his career has been a bit of a waste since his breakthrough at Celtic 3 years ago)

It's the way Belgium developed their current squad as I understand it, i.e. not shoehorning a Belgian Charlie Mulgrew in at LB or CB just because he might do a better job for that particular game, but consistently picking and playing the younger guy so he becomes very comfortable with international football and can deliver for a good 10+ years.

[DA Baracus]

It's something that has always annoyed me. We've been far too late to give young players a chance in the squad for years and have relied on the same old guys even when they're well past their best (drafting in an 80 year old Davie Weir against Holland for example).

Many of the players mentioned might well not be good enough, but we'll never know as they simply aren't given a chance. Strachan talks about building a 'club mentality', but when folk are pish for their club, they get dropped. This doesn't seem to happen for Scotland.

[Jambomo]

It's the way Belgium developed their current squad as I understand it, i.e. not shoehorning a Belgian Charlie Mulgrew in at LB or CB just because he might do a better job for that particular game, but consistently picking and playing the younger guy so he becomes very comfortable with international football and can deliver for a good 10+ years.

I really agree with this bit. We can afford to put in one or two players like Gauld/Armstrong etc who we think can do the job. We do have to give them a proper chance though, we can't just give players a few sub appearance and a friendly then say they are shit which is what we have a tendency to do.

[Jambomo]

It's something that has always annoyed me. We've been far too late to give young players a chance in the squad for years and have relied on the same old guys even when they're well past their best (drafting in an 80 year old Davie Weir against Holland for example).

Many of the players mentioned might well not be good enough, but we'll never know as they simply aren't given a chance. Strachan talks about building a 'club mentality', but when folk are pish for their club, they get dropped. This doesn't seem to happen for Scotland.

We are too scared. Strachan goes for tried and tested rather than trusting that these players can step up.

I guess it doesn't help that everyone has hysterics (mostly the media) when we have a bad result such as Georgia. We have those anyway though, so he might as well take the flak and put in a few new boys cause he'll be getting flak anyway.

[throbber]

The problem has been the same for years now and will continue to be so after this campaign. A complete over abundance of sturdy, fit young players who are good at physically challenging technically gifted top teams like Spain, Germany, Italy and France over the years but have fallen short due to results against Georgia, Czech Republic and Belarus to name but a few. Certain supporters like to come out with the usual lines of "Why can't we play like that every game" when we narrowly avoid defeat against the world champions or "We always make it hard for ourselves against the smaller teams" Its not by accident this happens its a shear lack of ability to take the game to another team from start to finish. A lack of creativity and technical ability is the reasons that we slip up to smaller teams and i can't see that changing any time soon and by dropping the likes of Brown and Mulgrew we lose that vital bit of experience that can be crucial in these games we manage to scrape a one goal win against the likes of Georgia or ROI.

[forameus]

We are too scared. Strachan goes for tried and tested rather than trusting that these players can step up.

I guess it doesn't help that everyone has hysterics (mostly the media) when we have a bad result such as Georgia. We have those anyway though, so he might as well take the flak and put in a few new boys cause he'll be getting flak anyway.

You've probably hit mostly on the truth. If you're Gordon Strachan, do you take the risk and "rip it up and start again" as some seem to advocate, risking getting punted out of the Euros early because the players aren't ready? No, you pick the team that can best achieve qualification. He'd get crucified (rightly)by the same people that are (again, rightly) complaining about Georgia if we finished bottom because he decided to play the U21s.

That's not to say that there can't be a middle-ground, but that's what he's always tried to do - get a few young players into each squad so they can be there and be around the atmosphere. Maybe add a couple more if there are people he thinks merit inclusion. The problem is, unlike larger nations, we really don't have any games that we can use as a free hit for fringe players. We're also not technically proficient enough to quickly change between systems, so Strachan has to train his best system, and play his best side in most games, to avoid any disasters.

Probably comes from the same people that go on Facebook posts about youth age groups, or women's teams doing well, and dribble out a hugely cringey "WE SHOOD PLAY THEM INSTEAD 'A THA SEENURZ!!!!!"

[MarkoRaj]

It's the way Belgium developed their current squad as I understand it, i.e. not shoehorning a Belgian Charlie Mulgrew in at LB or CB just because he might do a better job for that particular game, but consistently picking and playing the younger guy so he becomes very comfortable with international football and can deliver for a good 10+ years.

It helps if the players you are blooding in are Eden Hazard and Vincent Kompany. Do you not think that maybe these players actually just happened to be good enough to replace their predecessors from a young age?

[Gordopolis]

It helps if the players you are blooding in are Eden Hazard and Vincent Kompany. Do you not think that maybe these players actually just happened to be good enough to replace their predecessors from a young age?

Perhaps Hazard and Kompany showed enough potential and current ability to dislodge those older than them, but there are a fair few others in their squad who fell out of the club picture for a time in their late teens/early 20s, but Belgium continued to select and play them despite there being 'better' senior players. It'd be a hellishly tricky thing to get right, but it can pay dividends.

For me, Mulgrew should play in defensive midfield for us or not at all (unless we're short because of injuries). That Hanley and Robertson (guys we have to put our faith in) were benched for him reeks of desperation.

ETA: read about Belgium's strategy a few years back and Googled there to try and find it to provide examples. Couldn't find it, but interesting to see Belgium's current squad doesn't really have a 'big-hitter' in terms of goalscoring (Hazard on 10 in 59 caps is their best)

[Moo]

Looking at potential players breaking through into the squad for the next campaign in my eyes are...

Scott Bain

Stuart Armstrong

Matt Phillips (I know he's already been capped)

Jordan Rhodes (Same as above).

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Players like GMS, Watt etc are ok players. Watt could become a decent international and GMS is just a top end SPL player.

A new right back to break through would be decent as Hutton is getting on and not playing regular football at the minute.

Team I'd like to see start the next campaign barring any injuries in a 4-2-3-1 formation is...

Gordon

Hutton (Preferably someone else)

Martin

Hanley

Robertson

McArthur Morrison (Although I'd be happy with Brown or Fletcher in there alongside one of them)

Phillips

Armstrong/Maloney

Anya

Griffiths/Rhodes

It doesn't really look the best of teams but it's the best in my eyes at the moment.

[SpoonTon]

It's something that has always annoyed me. We've been far too late to give young players a chance in the squad for years and have relied on the same old guys even when they're well past their best (drafting in an 80 year old Davie Weir against Holland for example).

Many of the players mentioned might well not be good enough, but we'll never know as they simply aren't given a chance. Strachan talks about building a 'club mentality', but when folk are pish for their club, they get dropped. This doesn't seem to happen for Scotland.

Who should have replaced Weir in that game? I can understand the argument that it was a game or two too far by that point for him, but you can't simply make a player international quality by throwing caps at him. Who exactly are the young players, on form at club level, who are going to develop into better players by getting games for Scotland?

I can think of Robertson, who we need to persist with at left back, but that's it really. I hope there's a good argument for players like Gauld and Watt in a few months time. But as you say, we need players who are on form at club level .

And let's not forget, playing alongside more experienced players is also good for their development. The truth is that we need to be bringing through better players. The problem for the most part is actually coming before we reach full international level.

[54_and_counting]

But as you say, we need players who are on form at club level .

and even if we do have players on form at club level, people always find an excuse not to use them

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

and even if we do have players on form at club level, people always find an excuse not to use them

It does not matter if the player is playing well if the league he is in is of a low standard.

Hearts played Everton in a pre-season game. That's a Premiership side v a side full of internationals. We couldn't get the ball off them or out or own half.

A Scotland side made up of Premiership players would get hammered all the time.

We should experiment and show the delusional ones where we are right now, just for a laugh.

[1320Lichtie]

^ so true

Was imagining how hilarious it would've been when I was at the game to see Bain/Patterson/Shinnie/Jack/Reynolds etc all playing on Monday night....

They were on a different planet from our players that are playing at the highest level, never mind playing against a Scot Premiership team, it'd genuinely be like Barcelona v Aberdeen or something

[10menwent2mow]

Ryan Jack is almost certainly going to see an international senior career pass him by. It's very sad. As a previous poster has said he's probably one of the most suited players we have to international football, comfortable on the ball, passes to someone wearing the same colour all the time and finds space. Not very flashy and not very blood and thunder but this is how our national team should aspire to be. Efficient.

[10menwent2mow]

It does not matter if the player is playing well if the league he is in is of a low standard.

Hearts played Everton in a pre-season game. That's a Premiership side v a side full of internationals. We couldn't get the ball off them or out or own half.

A Scotland side made up of Premiership players would get hammered all the time.

We should experiment and show the delusional ones where we are right now, just for a laugh.

I'm not saying the team should be made up entirely of Spfl players. Just that they be given a chance. Strachan has basically said that even guys scoring goals in the Premiership in Scotland are below guys in the championship so what's the point in someone scoring goals in Scotland staying if they want international football.

Fans of club sides get angry when the young players they produce end up going south for buttons. (See ryan Fraser, Chris Maguire and Jack Grimmer as recent examples from my own club) but what message does it send to these kids when the national manager is basically saying unless you play for Celtic or in England you have no chance of international honours.

[1320Lichtie]

The message it sends to kids is get yourself playing at a higher level if you want to play for Scotland. Pretty simple really. Although I doubt any of the players you mentioned moved because of their international careers at that age

A small matter of a little thing called money I imagine.

[10menwent2mow]

I'm sure it was financially related. But I'll give you a quote from one Clark Robertson, first team fringe player at Aberdeen for the last few years.

'It was always my ambition when I was coming through the youth system at Aberdeen to get down to England'

He signed for Blackpool, at the arse end of England's 3rd tier.

For what it's worth I have no ill feeling to the boys that left Aberdeen. Careers could yet go on an upward curve and be like MacArthur.

In relation to your point about playing at a higher level, that would be fair if half our squad was PLAYING, at a higher level. Most of the time they are picking splinters out of their arse

[54_and_counting]

^ so true

Was imagining how hilarious it would've been when I was at the game to see Bain/Patterson/Shinnie/Jack/Reynolds etc all playing on Monday night....

They were on a different planet from our players that are playing at the highest level, never mind playing against a Scot Premiership team, it'd genuinely be like Barcelona v Aberdeen or something

These players will never get better if they dont get chances against better teams

Had the current squad been storming all over europe, topping the group, then we wouldn't be having this discussion

But as it stands we're fourth seeds, and a 50/50 chance of finishing 4th

What's to lose giving younger players a game

[Guest DAVIDB69]

These players will never get better if they dont get chances against better teams

Had the current squad been storming all over europe, topping the group, then we wouldn't be having this discussion

But as it stands we're fourth seeds, and a 50/50 chance of finishing 4th

What's to lose giving younger players a game

That's the whole point we keep saying we can't risk playing players that are not championship or Epl bench warmers but these same players are failing time and time again.

Some of these same players will be up to five failed campaigns after this one