invergowrie arab Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 It's hard for me to judge Rise given they are pretty ubiquitous in my social media circles. I suspect they will maybe hit 2 or 3% in Glasgow and fail to register anywhere else. Tommy at his height, was considered a serious politician. Certainly not a statesman but as a kind of jimminy cricket for left liberal folks who bought into neo liberal Blairism and Swinneys gradualism but still wanted a wee fling on the side with a radical alternative, some literally. He was pretty much the Scottish figurehead of the anti war movement. In many ways Patrick Harvie fills the same role today although I credit him with a lot more intelligence, ability and integrity. What I would say about revolutionary socialism is , much like cocaine, it's no way for responsible adults to carry on but I feel genuinely sorry for you if you didn't give it a bash when you were young. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 It's hard for me to judge Rise given they are pretty ubiquitous in my social media circles. I suspect they will maybe hit 2 or 3% in Glasgow and fail to register anywhere else. Tommy at his height, was considered a serious politician. Certainly not a statesman but as a kind of jimminy cricket for left liberal folks who bought into neo liberal Blairism and Swinneys gradualism but still wanted a wee fling on the side with a radical alternative, some literally. He was pretty much the Scottish figurehead of the anti war movement. In many ways Patrick Harvie fills the same role today although I credit him with a lot more intelligence, ability and integrity. What I would say about revolutionary socialism is , much like cocaine, it's no way for responsible adults to carry on but I feel genuinely sorry for you if you didn't give it a bash when you were young. Who was the guy who was the editor of a west highland newspaper many years ago? He was anti everything but he ended up a labour lord. From one extreme to another. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 They seem to have a decent, growing membership base, but until they manage to start gaining a wider profile, they're probably going to struggle to get anywhere near 4-5%. At best they'll maybe sneak a seat in May, but even that seems quite unlikely. Greens seem like the better option on the lists. RISE have no chance whatever of taking a list seat in May. Zero. I am not sure that the Greens and RISE are really after the same demographic, either. Greens do well in student and middle class areas, but are regarded with deep susupicion in working class communities as far as I can see. RISE are meant to be targeting what's left of the militant working class but I'm not really sure they are making any impact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) What I would say about revolutionary socialism is , much like cocaine, it's no way for responsible adults to carry on but I feel genuinely sorry for you if you didn't give it a bash when you were young. Yeah, and look at where we are after deacdes of mainstream voting patterns by "responsible adults". It's astonishing how boring and mediocre the SNP have become. The biggest Scottish political mandate in living memory and they are creeping about like a retired bank manager in charge of a fractious bowling club committee. best not offend anyone. really, why bother if that's the guiding principle? Edited March 25, 2016 by Ivo den Bieman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonMan Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) RISE have no chance whatever of taking a list seat in May. Zero. I am not sure that the Greens and RISE are really after the same demographic, either. Greens do well in student and middle class areas, but are regarded with deep susupicion in working class communities as far as I can see. RISE are meant to be targeting what's left of the militant working class but I'm not really sure they are making any impact. RISE will also be trying to target that left-wing, student group though, because it's generally more likely to be left-leaning, and therefore may consider an option like RISE. Again, the Greens will get much of that vote, but RISE will almost certainly be looking to take some of it. Doubt they'll have much success, though. Edited March 25, 2016 by TonMan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Yeah, they're very late to the party in trying to capture that vote which the Greens have made their own long ago. The Greens are just as much an alliance of convenience as the SNP were /are. Rather than national identity as a guiding principle, the environment trumps everything else in their ranks. Just like the old SNP, they have a lot of pretty hard left wing activists in the cities, but a distinct No-voting and pretty right wing element in other areas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 m. Just like the old SNP, they have a lot of pretty hard left wing activists in the cities, but a distinct No-voting and pretty right wing element in other areas. Greens in Brighton got a significant role on the council a few years back ( not sure if it was a majority or not) and aggressively cut services, safe to say this wasn't popular with those who chose them as the lefty option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Yeah, they're very late to the party in trying to capture that vote which the Greens have made their own long ago. The Greens are just as much an alliance of convenience as the SNP were /are. Rather than national identity as a guiding principle, the environment trumps everything else in their ranks. Just like the old SNP, they have a lot of pretty hard left wing activists in the cities, but a distinct No-voting and pretty right wing element in other areas. That's true of the long-standing members, but pretty much the entirety of the new members of the Greens post-referendum are there for social/economic policy over and above the environment. How active those new members are compared to the pre-referendum members remains to be seen, but it would be fair to say the Robin Harper types aren't having much influence on the direction of the party now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Yeah, they're very late to the party in trying to capture that vote which the Greens have made their own long ago. The Greens are just as much an alliance of convenience as the SNP were /are. Rather than national identity as a guiding principle, the environment trumps everything else in their ranks. Just like the old SNP, they have a lot of pretty hard left wing activists in the cities, but a distinct No-voting and pretty right wing element in other areas. Right wing Greens? In Scotland? I've never met one... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Yeah, and look at where we are after deacdes of mainstream voting patterns by "responsible adults". It's astonishing how boring and mediocre the SNP have become. The biggest Scottish political mandate in living memory and they are creeping about like a retired bank manager in charge of a fractious bowling club committee. best not offend anyone. really, why bother if that's the guiding principle? There is a fair bit of clear red water between revolutionary vanguard socialism and socially liberal anti austerity mainstream politics. Well, whether I like it all the policies or not that's the democratic mandate the Scottish people elected them on. They can't suddenly become a left wing socialist party because they have a majority. The Robin McAlpines of this world can write about their disappointment in the SNP or stamp their feet that the Scottish Government don't represent their ideas of what an independent Scotland would look like. But, unless they want to join those of us trying to build a radical base within the party their opinion is just a fart in the wind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'm not as close to it as a few other people in this thread but I think that the Sheridan Affair has basically killed the far Left (Left of SNP/Labour). They were given a relatively big mandate in 2003 and the legacy of it is the Sheridan trial and aftermath. It's destroyed the organisation and credibility. Another factor is independence. The SSP gained by putting independence at the centre of their policy platform and the Greens did similar but I think the prominence of the constitution has helped the SNP over everyone else. The Greens and SSP benefited from the SNPs slump in the early 2000s but with the SNP recovering and the prospect of independence real then people are more likely to vote for the primary party associated with that. I think you can see that with the dominance of the SNP in the Yes vote in currently polling. Of course, the Holyrood voting system gives the opportunity for people to share their vote around and this is what RISE, Sheridan and the Greens are hoping for (as observed in the cringey video Sheridan has published). Could be that the result will blow my above thesis out of the water but I don't think any of the Left parties to the SNP will get a seat in this election and if they can't make a breakthrough in the aftermath of the referendum, when Sheridan and the RIC commanded audiences larger than they'll likely every have again you'd have to question if there's any Parliamnentsry future in threes parties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Right wing Greens? In Scotland? I've never met one... Robin Harper is the figurehead really; quite a few Aberdeenshire Greens that I have come across voted No in the referendum and are pretty right wing economically, being environmentalist for romantic reasons, rather thsn the socio-economic reasons dunning1874 alludes to. He is also right to suggest that the right wing demographic in the party may not wield all that much actual power now. But, like the Ewing-ites in the SNP, they still exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Of course, the Holyrood voting system gives the opportunity for people to share their vote around and this is what RISE, Sheridan and the Greens are hoping for (as observed in the cringey video Sheridan has published). Could be that the result will blow my above thesis out of the water but I don't think any of the Left parties to the SNP will get a seat in this election and if they can't make a breakthrough in the aftermath of the referendum, when Sheridan and the RIC commanded audiences larger than they'll likely every have again you'd have to question if there's any Parliamnentsry future in threes parties. pure nonsense if you are including the Greens as in your "to the left of the SNP" bracket. Most polls have them taking 6-9 seats come May. Even if those polls are generous anything less than 4 seats will mark a pretty disastrous nigh for them. as already stated RISE were formed too late to make any electoral impact and I think we can safely discount Sheridan and Solidarity as worthy of serious scrutiny now- if they ever were. I also don't agree that the SSP benefitted purely from their longstanding pro-indy stance. People were willing to give them a hearing and they did do some very good work on warrant sales and free school meals in their time in the parliament. Maybe the RISE re-brand will put distance between the "old" SSP and theior electoral propsects, in time...if the alliance manages to hold together and survives an inevitably poor performance this time around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 pure nonsense if you are including the Greens as in your "to the left of the SNP" bracket. Most polls have them taking 6-9 seats come May. Even if those polls are generous anything less than 4 seats will mark a pretty disastrous nigh for them. as already stated RISE were formed too late to make any electoral impact and I think we can safely discount Sheridan and Solidarity as worthy of serious scrutiny now- if they ever were. I also don't agree that the SSP benefitted purely from their longstanding pro-indy stance. People were willing to give them a hearing and they did do some very good work on warrant sales and free school meals in their time in the parliament. Maybe the RISE re-brand will put distance between the "old" SSP and theior electoral propsects, in time...if the alliance manages to hold together and survives an inevitably poor performance this time around. I wasn't including the Greens in the 'Left' group, should've said that specifically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Yeah, and look at where we are after deacdes of mainstream voting patterns by "responsible adults". It's astonishing how boring and mediocre the SNP have become. The biggest Scottish political mandate in living memory and they are creeping about like a retired bank manager in charge of a fractious bowling club committee. best not offend anyone. really, why bother if that's the guiding principle? For us to gain independence the SNP have to embrace a broad political spectrum They have to appeal to ex-labour, ex-tory and ex-libs as well as to our own supporters. If you just accept that fact and wait until independence then you go your way as I will go mine. Edited March 25, 2016 by Wee Willie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'm not in the SNP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Yeah, and look at where we are after deacdes of mainstream voting patterns by "responsible adults". It's astonishing how boring and mediocre the SNP have become. The biggest Scottish political mandate in living memory and they are creeping about like a retired bank manager in charge of a fractious bowling club committee. best not offend anyone. really, why bother if that's the guiding principle? I'm not in the SNP Then why are you complaining about them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 oh, I dunno, maybe it's because they are in government? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broomhill Ultra Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 It's astonishing how boring and mediocre the SNP have become. The biggest Scottish political mandate in living memory and they are creeping about like a retired bank manager in charge of a fractious bowling club committee. 😀 That's very funny and quite true and I'm an SNP member (albeit a burnt out ex-SSP one) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim O'Grady Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 MAAAARMITE NUTELLA! FREEDUM! Oh bollocks, that made me laugh. Sorry, it won't happen again Grimbo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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