The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[Pull My Strings]

21 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Unpopular but genuine question alert - at what point is malky mackay allowed to move on from those text messages?

 

Not sure anyone's stopping him from moving on anywhere, or do you mean when do people stop thinking he's a cunt? My guess would be at some point in the future when he stops acting like a cunt.

[craigkillie]

Even this season when he had a chance to make an anti-racism statement with the Fuchs incident (whether or not he was in fact racially abused), instead he decided to have a go at the opposing manager about it. If you're asking when folk can move on, it's basically once he stops doing stuff like that and seems actually sorry.

[morrison]

55 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Unpopular but genuine question alert - at what point is malky mackay allowed to move on from those text messages?

 

He's never properly apologised, nor done anything publicly to demonstrate he's a reformed character (or even "I've always been good and it was a mistake, honest!") and actively take part is anti-discriminatory campaigns or messaging. If anything, he's been pretty dismissive when it's brought up.

He's in a privileged position and He's simply not done anything close to enough to make a lot of people feel like he's earned this opportunity. Same goes for his old SFA role.

When is he allowed to move on? At his current rate, he isn't.

[Dons_1988]

That got the frosty reaction I expected 

[ropy]

On 28/10/2021 at 01:47, IrishBhoy said:

Sky Sports News presenter talking over highlights of Motherwell St Mirren earlier - ‘Goalkeeper Jak Alnwick gave away a penalty which Tony Watt dispatched etc etc…’ Not even 10 seconds later he says ‘but Brophys spot kick was saved by Alnwick…’ I can understand a mistake being made if it was the first occasion that Alnwick had been mentioned, but not when you have literally just called the opposing keeper by the same name mere seconds ago. 

Is that why it was retaken?

[ol1vercloff]

9 minutes ago, morrison said:

He's never properly apologised, nor done anything publicly to demonstrate he's a reformed character (or even "I've always been good and it was a mistake, honest!") and actively take part is anti-discriminatory campaigns or messaging. If anything, he's been pretty dismissive when it's brought up.

He's in a privileged position and He's simply not done anything close to enough to make a lot of people feel like he's earned this opportunity. Same goes for his old SFA role.

When is he allowed to move on? At his current rate, he isn't.

There will always be the people who say he's only taking part in campaigns etc because he has to.  So he can't really win, especially in today's world.  He's almost viewed worse than individuals in the game who have had brushes with the law to varying degrees.  I think we can all agree that we're glad we're not Malky Mackay.

[Jacky1990]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Unpopular but genuine question alert - at what point is malky mackay allowed to move on from those text messages?

 

The problem is that Malky Mackay moved on the second he got his jotters from Cardiff.

Its hard to give him the benefit of the doubt about him being or not being a racist, misogynistic homophobe when the guy has time and again refused the opportunity to own his mistakes, properly apologise or sought to make amends. The general vibe of the guy is that he isnt particularly bothered by the things he sent, only that he got caught and vilified for it.

He also just comes across as a complete c**t of a man so doubtful people are going to be very forgiving in the long run.

[morrison]

23 minutes ago, ol1vercloff said:

There will always be the people who say he's only taking part in campaigns etc because he has to.  So he can't really win, especially in today's world. 

I think we can all agree that we're glad we're not Malky Mackay.

This is true. But when he hasn't even done that...

[ol1vercloff]

14 minutes ago, morrison said:

This is true. But when he hasn't even done that...

I feel like it would be quite insincere if he was to be involved in a campaign like that, like Goodwillie volunteering at a womens shelter.  Maybe the best thing is to just keep the head down and try to forge a career in management, hoping it all blows over 

[Pull My Strings]

1 hour ago, ol1vercloff said:

There will always be the people who say he's only taking part in campaigns etc because he has to.  So he can't really win, especially in today's world.  He's almost viewed worse than individuals in the game who have had brushes with the law to varying degrees.  I think we can all agree that we're glad we're not Malky Mackay.

That makes it sound like he's simply the victim of bad luck. I'm not treated like Malky Mackay because I haven't behaved like Malky Mackay.

[ol1vercloff]

4 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

That makes it sound like he's simply the victim of bad luck. I'm not treated like Malky Mackay because I haven't behaved like Malky Mackay.

Not at all.  He has done wrong and will know that himself.  But in a business where public perception is very important, there is no move that he can make where people will criticise or question the sincerity of his positive moves he tries to make...or doesn't make.  Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.  

[Sarto Mutiny]

There will always be the people who say he's only taking part in campaigns etc because he has to.  So he can't really win, especially in today's world.  He's almost viewed worse than individuals in the game who have had brushes with the law to varying degrees.  I think we can all agree that we're glad we're not Malky Mackay.

Yeah, its come to something in today's world when a fat unrepentant racist can't even be a fat unrepentant racist without being called out. His lack of any apology and his appalling conduct at Tannadice a couple of weeks ago told us all we needed to know about his character.

You look at David Martindale, who has made serious mistakes but has owned them, done his time, apologised, worked hard to put that behind him, and as a result is generally respected within the game. That's the difference.

[ol1vercloff]

2 minutes ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

Yeah, its come to something in today's world when a fat unrepentant racist can't even be a fat unrepentant racist without being called out. His lack of any apology and his appalling conduct at Tannadice a couple of weeks ago told us all we needed to know about his character.

You look at David Martindale, who has made serious mistakes but has owned them, done his time, apologised, worked hard to put that behind him, and as a result is generally respected within the game. That's the difference.

I just don't think it would make a difference if Mackay apologised or not.  He will always be viewed as a racist, because that is essentially what he is.

[Pull My Strings]

1 minute ago, ol1vercloff said:

I just don't think it would make a difference if Mackay apologised or not.  He will always be viewed as a racist, because that is essentially what he is.

/ fin

[KingRocketman II]

2 hours ago, ol1vercloff said:

I just don't think it would make a difference if Mackay apologised or not.  He will always be viewed as a racist, because that is essentially what he is.

ha - a Sun editorial in 3-4 of your posts. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by KingRocketman II
a Viz depiction of a Sun editorial to be accurate

[Jacky1990]

3 hours ago, ol1vercloff said:

Not at all.  He has done wrong and will know that himself.  But in a business where public perception is very important, there is no move that he can make where people will criticise or question the sincerity of his positive moves he tries to make...or doesn't make.  Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.  

You are absolutely right, public perception is huge for anyone in the public eye. More so in such a small melting pot like Scottish football. You've got to question, then, why Malky hasnt tried to change that public perception to his behaviour by getting involved with anti-racism, anti-homophobia charities. Yes, it might be superficial and just for show, but he could at least have claimed to see the error of his ways and how the things he said can hurt people and look to stop others from making similar mistakes in their language. 

But he hasnt done any of that in the 8 years since it all came out. He'll carry this around with him for the rest of his managerial/coaching career and he 100% only has himself to blame. For that reason I have no hesitation on calling the guy a c**t for the foreseeable future.

[forkboy]

11 hours ago, ol1vercloff said:

I just don't think it would make a difference if Mackay apologised or not.  He will always be viewed as a racist, because that is essentially what he is.

If Malky apologised sincerely & showed remorse & gad clearly learned from his mistakes then he absolutely could move on from the racist & homophobic shit.

Racists can reform, & saying something beyond the pale shouldn't be the end of your life. But you have to be willing to learn from your mistakes & if necessary do restitution. Goodwillie may or may not have been sincere but McKay hasn't even bothered with an insincere gesture. 

f**k, at this point I'd settle for a mea culpa. At least it'd be a start.

[Junior_Arab]

1 hour ago, forkboy said:

If Malky apologised sincerely & showed remorse & gad clearly learned from his mistakes then he absolutely could move on from the racist & homophobic shit.

Racists can reform, & saying something beyond the pale shouldn't be the end of your life. But you have to be willing to learn from your mistakes & if necessary do restitution. Goodwillie may or may not have been sincere but McKay hasn't even bothered with an insincere gesture. 

f**k, at this point I'd settle for a mea culpa. At least it'd be a start.

”In a statement issued to BBC Scotland, Show Racism the Red Card said: "After admitting to sending text messages that were very regrettable and disrespectful to other cultures, Malky Mackay underwent equality and diversity training through an education programme with the FA and we wish him well in his new role at the SFA."

 

I’m not a fan of McKay’s by any stretch of the imagination, but surely undergoing “equality and diversity training through an education programme with the FA” would have to count as “an insincere gesture” at the very least?
 

And since Martindale has done his time I have no problem with him being employed with Livi - he’s entitled to work in any industry he wants as far as I’m concerned. But I can’t get my head round how many folk can forgive and forget when it comes to being a fairly senior figure in organised crime and drug smuggling but think that sending a few text messages that warranted no police action should bar someone from working in football for life. 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Junior_Arab

[Pull My Strings]

6 hours ago, Junior_Arab said:

”In a statement issued to BBC Scotland, Show Racism the Red Card said: "After admitting to sending text messages that were very regrettable and disrespectful to other cultures, Malky Mackay underwent equality and diversity training through an education programme with the FA and we wish him well in his new role at the SFA."

 

I’m not a fan of McKay’s by any stretch of the imagination, but surely undergoing “equality and diversity training through an education programme with the FA” would have to count as “an insincere gesture” at the very least?
 

And since Martindale has done his time I have no problem with him being employed with Livi - he’s entitled to work in any industry he wants as far as I’m concerned. But I can’t get my head round how many folk can forgive and forget when it comes to being a fairly senior figure in organised crime and drug smuggling but think that sending a few text messages that warranted no police action should bar someone from working in football for life. 

 

Nobody has suggested that Mackay should be barred from working in football.

[sophia]

21 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

The problem is that Malky Mackay moved on the second he got his jotters from Cardiff.

Its hard to give him the benefit of the doubt about him being or not being a racist, misogynistic homophobe when the guy has time and again refused the opportunity to own his mistakes, properly apologise or sought to make amends. The general vibe of the guy is that he isnt particularly bothered by the things he sent, only that he got caught and vilified for it.

He also just comes across as a complete c**t of a man so doubtful people are going to be very forgiving in the long run.

It isn't hard to find journalistic output that indicates views contrary to the ones you express 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/re-educated-malky-mackay-hopes-for-a-fresh-start-in-939990