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The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread


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13 minutes ago, AJF said:

That was not the intention of what I was saying, it was specifically in relation to the point made that 10% of the Ibrox crowd would use Famine Song add ons to the song.

And given that the Four Lads song is always sang at Ibrox, I was making the point that, in my opinion, it's entirely acceptable to use that song in a promo video for a commemorative kit.

I 100% agree. If it is the Four Lads song for the promo video, then it is entirely appropriate and makes total sense. However, as you make the point yourself, outside of the ground and away from home, fans may use other lyrics.

I've no idea of the lyrics, so appreciate it's not an 'add on' as such, but what I'm meaning is that while most will associate it with the right lyrics, other will take it as something else. Same goes for follow follow.

It's not isolated to just Rangers though. I hate when add ons or crass lyrics are sung to other football songs. Such as the bits added to flower of Scotland. 

I'm sure you are other sensible fans don't see it as anything other than what it is, but there will be some who will take it as something else. That's not specifically Rangers fault, but I think it would be nieve to think they wouldn't be aware.

 

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8 minutes ago, ropy said:

I had never heard of this 4 lads thing before today, I am a Sloop John B man, I am aware of the TFS derivative.

Four Lads has been a regular song played and sang at Ibrox for probably the last decade.

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1 minute ago, AJF said:

The point was made by @Theyellowboxin the post I previously quoted who mentioned that while 90% of people at Ibrox would be singing Four Lads, the other 10% would be using TFS lyrics. That's what I meant about add ons in the sense that when Four Lads is being sung, there are no Famine Song "add ons" or "substitutions", because they are entirely separate songs. 

And I respectfully disagree with the rest of your point. Intent is crucial here and if anyone believes that the song used during a 150th anniversary kit promo is intended to reference TFS rather than reference Four Lads (which is literally a song about our founding) then I think they are finding offence where there is none.

If it is not add ons, then i stand corrected, but the sentiment is the same. There is songs that do get played that can be and are sung, not as the originals are intended.

It's the genuine non aresehole Rangers fans I feel sorry for. You shouldn't be having to have any debate over alternative lyrics to a song about the founders or your club or have some idiots bringing your club down.

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3 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

If it is not add ons, then i stand corrected, but the sentiment is the same. There is songs that do get played that can be and are sung, not as the originals are intended.

It's the genuine non aresehole Rangers fans I feel sorry for. You shouldn't be having to have any debate over alternative lyrics to a song about the founders or your club or have some idiots bringing your club down.

I think this is where I can see both sides of the argument. There are people (like Michael Stewart) who will see this in a completely partisan view and genuinely believe that Rangers are using this tune as a reference to TFS due to the actions of moronic fans that have made it infamous.

But in reality, Four Lads is 100x more prominently sang in the Rangers support with the club also playing it over the tannoy pre-match. That is why I believe intent has to be taken into account here and I believe anyone who thinks this song has been used in reference to TFS rather than Four Lads is going out their way to be offended.

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5 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

It's the genuine non aresehole Rangers fans I feel sorry for. 

I wouldn't.

Rangers just released a statement saying "the City is ours" alongside a theme that the majority of their support will construe as a song about forcing Irish Catholics out the City, yet not a single Rangers fan is willing to stand up and admit that.

The "sensible ones" are complicit in encouraging the club to act this way, and the "moron element" to keep acting how they do, they're just too thick/cowardly to realise it.

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1 minute ago, AJF said:

But in reality, Four Lads is 100x more prominently sang in the Rangers support

 

I've literally never heard it at McDiarmid in 10+ years. The alternative is sung multiple times a match.

This is a bizarre, pointless, hill you're dying on.

Given a choice your fanbase would sign the altered version, there's literally no doubt about that. Rangers have simply removed the choice at Ibrox.

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12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I've literally never heard it at McDiarmid in 10+ years. The alternative is sung multiple times a match.

This is a bizarre, pointless, hill you're dying on.

Given a choice your fanbase would sign the altered version, there's literally no doubt about that. Rangers have simply removed the choice at Ibrox.

Below you’ll find a few easily found YouTube videos of Rangers fans singing the song at home, away and abroad.

If you skip to 2:30 of the first video, you’ll find the song being sung at McDiarmid. You’re talking shite.

 

https://youtu.be/k6sjE3BMhqE

 

https://youtu.be/ARlMjlO8KcI

 

https://youtu.be/UM-8PwW9II4

 

https://youtu.be/powsy3UEg_U

 

https://youtu.be/RSLo1UCfg2o

 

https://youtu.be/OEmQ-cIgJrQ

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6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I wouldn't.

Rangers just released a statement saying "the City is ours" alongside a theme that the majority of their support will construe as a song about forcing Irish Catholics out the City, yet not a single Rangers fan is willing to stand up and admit that.

The "sensible ones" are complicit in encouraging the club to act this way, and the "moron element" to keep acting how they do, they're just too thick/cowardly to realise it.

While I do think silence is being to a degree complicit, I think it is a bit more nuanced than that.

I think probably away from home, there will be a sizable element of their support who will feel enabled to belt out these songs as quite frankly they go unchallenged from their own fans or any authorities. At home might be less of an issue. However, it would take a very brave person to make any kind of a stand. Just look at the reactions to the Rangers fan the other week that called it out on social media, he got equally praised and castrated.

I do think it is upon the majority of Rangers fans to call out their own fans and when needs be their own club more often and not hide behind excuses.

However, what I think is becomingly increasingly clear is that the more the folk inside that club and support hold onto archaic views, the more they are being seen to be out of touch with the majority.

It may not feel like it, but I sense that the fans are increasingly had enough with the bigotry. Social media and forums is not a good measure of what the majority of a clubs support would think.

I really dislike Rangers and I do think that this is another example of them throwing out some content that certain fans can take in a certain way, but equally, I suspect a lot are like @AJF and see it as something else. 

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3 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

However, what I think is becomingly increasingly clear is that the more the folk inside that club and support hold onto archaic views,

This is the guy they headhunted to replace Jim Traynor

That is why I struggle to give them the benefit of the doubt with these things 

2B735A77-0A27-41C3-BD7B-6255849E9914.jpeg

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30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I wouldn't.

Rangers just released a statement saying "the City is ours" alongside a theme that the majority of their support will construe as a song about forcing Irish Catholics out the City, yet not a single Rangers fan is willing to stand up and admit that.

The "sensible ones" are complicit in encouraging the club to act this way, and the "moron element" to keep acting how they do, they're just too thick/cowardly to realise it.

Either i have spent years singing the wrong words to 4 lads or Random Guy needs serious help.

 

 

 

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I didn't know this was being discussed here.

Michael Stewart is 100% right. Anyone who isn't an arsehole can see why.
 

Rangers know their audience, profit from bigotry.
They don't care about "reading the room".

 

Horrible.

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1 minute ago, Busta Nut said:

I didn't know this was being discussed here.

Michael Stewart is 100% right. Anyone who isn't an arsehole can see why.
 

Rangers know their audience, profit from bigotry.
They don't care about "reading the room".

 

Horrible.

Nah we’re all diddies apparently.

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2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

Incredible naivety and stupidity at best to then use it in their new kit launch because it's a tune for another song. 

 

It's neither of those.

It's entirely cynical and can be added to the list of arguments that counter the narrative about Rangers doing everything they can to banish and prevent sectarianism.

In using a song which is itself used as it is, they're effectively endorsing it.

Edited by Monkey Tennis
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