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The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread


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21 minutes ago, AJF said:

Personally, I feel the amount of Rangers fans believed to support England over Scotland and wish Scotland to lose is overexaggerated. I don't doubt that some will and many more are quite apathetic towards the national side, but in my experience, most would like to see Scotland succeed but acknowledge there is a disconnect between them and the rest of the Scottish fanbase.

Those that cannot enjoy being Scottish and support their national team due to the events of 2012 onwards are misguided in my opinion. You can have a gripe with the SFA and still support the team - it's not mutually exclusive.

Personally, I don't know a single scottish Rangers fan that supports England or NI over Scotland.  I know a few who have no interest in the National team, but that's not the same thing.

I used to go to all the Scotland games at Hampden, but my interest waned over the last 10 years or so.  I still watch the games on TV, but I've zero interest in going to the games.  I am looking forward to watching the Euros as this is the first tournament we've been at that I can watch with my kids.

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I've seen some Rangers fans using the excuse of "but they boo'd Ryan Jack"

They know fine well it was some Aberdeen fans getting a bit carried away but they're happy to use the narrative as it scores them stuanchy points with other similar minded draggers online. 

The vast majority of fans who don't support Scotland dont simply do so because they support Rangers. I think it has more to do with their political beliefs (which may have been influenced by supporting Rangers) and the fact those people are so staunchy they wont support ANYTHING positive about Scotland sport related or otherwise unless its plastered in Rule Britannia.

Edited by Mr Positive, sometimes.
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19 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Not again, Jacksgranda! Albion Rovers were one of the five, East Stirlingshire were not. But I fully agree, the article is a pile of absolute shite. 

I need to write those down somewhere - I can never source it on Google! :lol:

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1 minute ago, KnightswoodBear said:

Personally, I don't know a single scottish Rangers fan that supports England or NI over Scotland.  I know a few who have no interest in the National team, but that's not the same thing.

I used to go to all the Scotland games at Hampden, but my interest waned over the last 10 years or so.  I still watch the games on TV, but I've zero interest in going to the games.  I am looking forward to watching the Euros as this is the first tournament we've been at that I can watch with my kids.

Yep, almost the same here. I think I know 1 person that would rather see England and NI do well over Scotland, and like you said, some that are largely apathetic but most still want Scotland to do well.

I've been to a handful of Scotland games and my group of friends often make a day of going out to watch them and have a few drinks. In a mixed group of supporters, I'd hate to lose that common ground where we are all supporting the same team and feel like an outsider just because of our club allegiances.

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11 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

I've seen some Rangers fans using the excuse of "but they boo'd Ryan Jack"

They know fine well it was some Aberdeen fans getting a bit carried away but they're happy to use the narrative as it scores them stuanchy points with other similar minded draggers online. 

The vast majority of fans who don't support Scotland isn't really related to the supporting Rangers. I think it has more to do with their political beliefs (which may have been influenced by supporting Rangers) and the fact those people are so staunchy they wont support anything that isn't plastered in Rule Britannia.

I do agree with you to an extent, but on the flip side, I also think some people play down the anti-Rangers feeling that is held in the Scottish fanbase that contributes to it.

Aside from the cases of Jack, Wallace or Black getting boo'd, let's not forget that Scotland fans on an away trip went to the extent of unfurling a banner mocking Lee Wallace and everyone was cheering and laughing. I also know of one friend that claims he was treated like he was an outcast when he travelled to Wembley on his own when we last played England there - but that is purely anecdotal.

I think the point I'm mainly getting at (which I appreciate is different to the one you made) is that Rangers fans are often accused of being unable to put their club allegiances aside when it comes to international football but in reality, it's the same for some fans of other clubs too.

Edited by AJF
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Quote

The three reasons Rangers fans have fallen out of love with the Scotland national team 

What are the 3 reasons?  Rangers died. Some people booed Rangers players.  Duncan Ferguson got a 12 match ban almost 30 years ago.

Is that the 3 reasons? :D 

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Regarding Rangers fans and England it's a mixed bag for me. Some are proper tartan army bams, some are Scottish and support England and some are the type who are ok with England winning if we aren't there.

The supporting England thing is an easy to stick to beat them with as it always gets a reaction.

Edited by Merkland Red
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5 hours ago, AJF said:

Personally, I feel the amount of Rangers fans believed to support England over Scotland and wish Scotland to lose is overexaggerated. I don't doubt that some will and many more are quite apathetic towards the national side, but in my experience, most would like to see Scotland succeed but acknowledge there is a disconnect between them and the rest of the Scottish fanbase.

Those that cannot enjoy being Scottish and support their national team due to the events of 2012 onwards are misguided in my opinion. You can have a gripe with the SFA and still support the team - it's not mutually exclusive.

Surely has nothing to do with the SFA – that sounds like an excuse in search of a reason. Are Hearts and Partick Thistle fans snubbing Scotland this summer because they were poorly treated by the SFA last year? 

My hunch is there's maybe a defensiveness among some Rangers fans about the growing existential threat to their Protestant, royalist and unionist culture. Supporting Scotland complicates things, as a successful Scotland is maybe seen as a threat, while getting hammered by England shows us our place in the scheme of things. Just a guess and it will only apply a minority of Rangers fans. (And even those fans wouldn't admit to that, hence the nonsense about the SFA.)

Plus England fans get to sing Rule Britannia.

Edited by Mr Heliums
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27 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

What are the 3 reasons?  Rangers died. Some people booed Rangers players.  Duncan Ferguson got a 12 match ban almost 30 years ago.

Is that the 3 reasons? :D 

But the SFA SHOULD HAVE HELPED them!

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19 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

Surely has nothing to do with the SFA – that sounds like an excuse in search of a reason. Are Hearts and Partick Thistle fans snubbing Scotland this summer because they were poorly treated by the SFA last year? 

My hunch is there's maybe a growing defensiveness among some Rangers fans about the existential threat to their culture. Protestant, royalist and unionist, all under a bit of threat since the 1990s. Supporting Scotland complicates things as Scotland doing well is maybe seen as a threat, while Scotland getting hammered by England shows us our place in the scheme of things. Just a guess and I think it will only apply a minority of Rangers fans. And even those fans wouldn't admit to that, hence the nonsense about the SFA.

Yeah, which is why I said anyone that claimed they don't support Scotland due to any gripes with the SFA I think are misguided. It's not to say I believe that is why, but it's a reason you see getting thrown around (especially on Twitter) by those that like to make it clear they won't be supporting Scotland.

In terms of a threat to culture, it could be linked. I don't really know enough about the political or religious landscape to say otherwise. Without a doubt there are Protestants within the Rangers support, but I'd guess that the number of practicing religious people in Scotland is declining so I don't know how much that would impact it.

As was mentioned previously, Rangers fans made up the largest % of Scotland Supporter Club members as recently as December 2018. I can't say how those numbers have changed since, but it does show that Rangers fans do back Scotland and I feel that those who do not are portrayed as the typical Rangers fan when it's not really the case.

Edited by AJF
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22 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Who was the Rangers supporting loser on here that travelled to France to watch Northern Ireland at the last Euros?

MJC.

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1 hour ago, AJF said:

Yeah, which is why I said anyone that claimed they don't support Scotland due to any gripes with the SFA I think are misguided. It's not to say I believe that is why, but it's a reason you see getting thrown around (especially on Twitter) by those that like to make it clear they won't be supporting Scotland.

In terms of a threat to culture, it could be linked. I don't really know enough about the political or religious landscape to say otherwise. Without a doubt there are Protestants within the Rangers support, but I'd guess that the number of practicing religious people in Scotland is declining so I don't know how much that would impact it.

As was mentioned previously, Rangers fans made up the largest % of Scotland Supporter Club members as recently as December 2018. I can't say how those numbers have changed since, but it does show that Rangers fans do back Scotland and I feel that those who do not are portrayed as the typical Rangers fan when it's not really the case.

Doubt having to actually go to church comes into it where being a prod is concerned.

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1 minute ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Doubt having to actually go to church comes into it where being a prod is concerned.

Fair enough, maybe practicing was the wrong term to use but I'd still guess that religion on a whole is declining in Scotland. My point behind it was that you'll no doubt have non-religious Rangers fans that are apathetic towards the national team. I was trying to highlight that I don't think it can only be portrayed as a cultural threat as the reasons behind it, though it will likely be a contributing factor to some - to what extent, I don't know.

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1 hour ago, AJF said:

Rangers fans made up the largest % of Scotland Supporter Club members as recently as December 2018

That simply isn't the case. The inference in Joel Sked's article was that as an individual club support they made up a higher percentage than others, which is not the same thing. Neither did the source of Sked's information didn't publish figures with his claim, although I've no reason to doubt him.

Regarding Ibrox disdain for the SFA stemming from 2012, that'll be the same SFA which introduced the concept of 'conditional membership' to allow Charles Green's Sevco to face Brechin City at Glebe Park in the Ramsdens Cup that year. 'Conditional membership' wasn't a status in the SFA rule book of the time.

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4 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

That simply isn't the case. The inference in Joel Sked's article was that as an individual club support they made up a higher percentage than others, which is not the same thing. Neither did the source of Sked's information didn't publish figures with his claim, although I've no reason to doubt him.

Regarding Ibrox disdain for the SFA stemming from 2012, that'll be the same SFA which introduced the concept of 'conditional membership' to allow Charles Green's Sevco to face Brechin City at Glebe Park in the Ramsdens Cup that year. 'Conditional membership' wasn't a status in the SFA rule book of the time.

The source wasn’t Joel Sked, it was from the tweet below, published by Michael Bochel who was employed by the SFA as Head of Digital at the time the tweet was published.

 

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23 minutes ago, AJF said:

The source wasn’t Joel Sked, it was from the tweet below, published by Michael Bochel who was employed by the SFA as Head of Digital at the time the tweet was published.

 

The most recent post recalling Bochel's tweet referred to Sked's Scotsman article, but Bochel, as I've said, didn't publish figures with his claim. In any case, the actual tweet you've supplied doesn't claim that Ibrox supporters, in 2018, made up the majority of Scotland Supporter Club members. It claims they make the largest individual one club group. Not that it really matters.

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