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The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread


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4 minutes ago, G51 said:

It's the most important game in the SWPL this week, because it's two of the three title contenders facing each other.

The issue appears to be the prominence affixed to this game, hence the disgust at it being the "first" item on the BBC gossip page.

That's fair, albeit Celtic are all but arithmetically out of it; there are two realistic title contenders and neither of them are Celtic. 

The issue is definitely the prominence given, but whether that prominence is justified on the basis of the fixture or not (it is), the assumption by the original poster was clearly that it was only getting such prominence due to it being an Old Firm women's game, and not an important women's game. 

It didn't read to me like an anti-women's football post at all, but rather an anti-old firm post. 

If I read that wrong then the guy is a walloper. Don't think I am, though. 

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That's fair, albeit Celtic are all but arithmetically out of it; there are two realistic title contenders and neither of them are Celtic. 
The issue is definitely the prominence given, but whether that prominence is justified on the basis of the fixture or not (it is), the assumption by the original poster was clearly that it was only getting such prominence due to it being an Old Firm women's game, and not an important women's game. 
It didn't read to me like an anti-women's football post at all, but rather an anti-old firm post. 
If I read that wrong then the guy is a walloper. Don't think I am, though. 

There are 11 games left and Celtic are 5 points behind. In no way are they "all but arithmetically out of it".
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If the championship was coming down to Rangers and Dundee United (shut up, it's my scenario) and Celtic could still win the championship would the OF game this weekend be a lead story? Yes.

4/10 of the top stories are about womens football which is excellent IMO

However, I would argue Partick going top of L1 and QP winning L2 is more important than 2 Scots playing against each other in the WPL (as it would be in EPL) and a random interview with Caroline Weir (I would say same if it was Kieran Tierney). 

These are also more important stories than the men's ones above them too. 

Edited by invergowrie arab
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9 minutes ago, G51 said:

I think he meant the first story on the Sport Scotland page (it's actually the second story, and it's a preview of all the SWPL fixtures as well as a general overview of the league so far this season).

I see. Yeah I have no issue with that. 

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1 minute ago, AndyDD said:

That's fair, albeit Celtic are all but arithmetically out of it; there are two realistic title contenders and neither of them are Celtic. 

The issue is definitely the prominence given, but whether that prominence is justified on the basis of the fixture or not (it is), the assumption by the original poster was clearly that it was only getting such prominence due to it being an Old Firm women's game, and not an important women's game. 

It didn't read to me like an anti-women's football post at all, but rather an anti-old firm post. 

If I read that wrong then the guy is a walloper. Don't think I am, though. 

Celtic have a shot if they win tonight. They'll be two points behind Rangers and between two - five points behind Glasgow City. Even if they don't win the title, second place gets a CL spot. Those three teams are miles ahead of the rest of them, so obviously two of them playing each other is going to be the main story.

The game's also being played at Celtic Park for the first time, which is kind of a big deal.

The OP clearly didn't read the article at all, because if he did he'd realise it's a preview of the entire SWPL, including a bit about the interim Motherwell head coach trying to land the job permanently.

 

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1 minute ago, invergowrie arab said:

If the championship was coming down to Rangers and Dundee United (shut up, it's my scenario) and Celtic could still win the championship would the OF game this weekend be a lead story? Yes.

4/10 of the top stories are about womens football which is excellent IMO

However, I would argue Partick going top of L1 and QP winning L2 is more important than 2 Scots playing against each other in the WPL (as it would be in EPL) and a random interview with Caroline Weir (I would say same if it was Kieran Tierney). 

I’ve never really liked the ‘Scottish football’ section covering minor Scots achievements in English football so I can’t get on board with that either. 

When Moyes got sacked from man United it completely consumed the Scottish football section. 

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2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:


There are 11 games left and Celtic are 5 points behind. In no way are they "all but arithmetically out of it".

They must win this game to have any realistic prospect, because the chances of Glasgow City losing their 5 point buffer is remote in the extreme, especially with such a superior goal difference. 

They can put a serious, but not fatal, dent in Rangers by winning the game. Glasgow City will then be firmly in the driving seat. Anything can happen in football, but Celtic are in last chance saloon and would still need multiple slip ups from Glasgow City. 

You'd firmly expect Glasgow City to win against Hibs. 

Once again, though, to circle back to the point; the guy you attacked seemed fairly clearly annoyed by what he felt was a focus on the Old Firm. Not a focus on the women's game. 

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4 minutes ago, G51 said:

Celtic have a shot if they win tonight. They'll be two points behind Rangers and between two - five points behind Glasgow City. Even if they don't win the title, second place gets a CL spot. Those three teams are miles ahead of the rest of them, so obviously two of them playing each other is going to be the main story.

The game's also being played at Celtic Park for the first time, which is kind of a big deal.

The OP clearly didn't read the article at all, because if he did he'd realise it's a preview of the entire SWPL, including a bit about the interim Motherwell head coach trying to land the job permanently.

 

They have a remote shot if they win tonight, as they would be relying on a Falkirk-esque collapse from Glasgow City, which seems very unlikely. Fair point about the importance of the second place finish, though. 

The bolded section is definitely correct, aye. 

My point was that their irritation seemed to quite clearly be the OF slant they perceived rather than the women's game slant. He was accused of the opposite. 

 

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He was moaning because women's football was given more prominence than any of the men's games tonight.

No.
I was complaining about yet more ok’d firm* hype from the beeb
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3 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

They must win this game to have any realistic prospect, because the chances of Glasgow City losing their 5 point buffer is remote in the extreme, especially with such a superior goal difference. 

They can put a serious, but not fatal, dent in Rangers by winning the game. Glasgow City will then be firmly in the driving seat. Anything can happen in football, but Celtic are in last chance saloon and would still need multiple slip ups from Glasgow City. 

You'd firmly expect Glasgow City to win against Hibs. 

Once again, though, to circle back to the point; the guy you attacked seemed fairly clearly annoyed by what he felt was a focus on the Old Firm. Not a focus on the women's game. 

Celtic have still to play Glasgow City. If they win their remaining 11 fixtures, including tonight, then Celtic would only theoretically require one additional draw from Glasgow City in any of their remaining fixtures. Celtic won't win the league because they aren't good enough to, but they are very clearly still in the race as it stands.

The poster was very clearly being misogynistic - he used the term "wee sisters" and also put "Old Firm" in quote marks. It is very clear that his point was "oh they're so obsessed with the Old Firm that they'll even put women's (WOMEN'S!) football at the top of the page if it involves them".

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To be honest if the Aberdeen men's team were sat joint top with Rangers, and Celtic were 5 behind and they gave prominence to an OF game I don't think I'd have too many complaints? Still a key game in the title race and the OF is still a prominent fixture in Scotland. The issue is the blanket coverage to the detriment of everyone else. In my hypothetical scenario, if they completely ignored Aberdeen's game then fair enough I'd be annoyed.

Maybe the terrible element of this is that an entire fixture card has been summarised into one short article which forces a headline as that one.

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My point was more why this has only happened this week and not previously, for the women’s league. There have been plenty “crunch” games in the preceding weeks but this week is the first time the SWPL is given precedence, why?

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2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Celtic have still to play Glasgow City. If they win their remaining 11 fixtures, including tonight, then Celtic would only theoretically require one additional draw from Glasgow City in any of their remaining fixtures. Celtic won't win the league because they aren't good enough to, but they are very clearly still in the race as it stands.

The poster was very clearly being misogynistic - he used the term "wee sisters" and also put "Old Firm" in quote marks. It is very clear that his point was "oh they're so obsessed with the Old Firm that they'll even put women's (WOMEN'S!) football at the top of the page if it involves them".

Like I said. A remote shot. The chances of such a scenario playing out are self-evidently remote. 

The inference is obviously that the poster did not think they would ever put women's football at the top of the page if it was not the Old Firm, because they are casting the bbc Scotland sport coverage as Old Firm obsessed. 

That was the source of their ire and it is quite blatantly obvious. The use of 'wee sisters' is no more and no less dismissive than the sort of terms fans would routinely throw around to refer to the old firm colts. They are having a pop at the media and the prominence they feel is only ever given to the old firm. 

 

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It's possible to think women's football gets undue prominence without being misogynistic.

It'd be nice to have a conversation about such things without accusations of prejudice being thrown in at the first mention of gender.

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17 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

It's possible to think women's football gets undue prominence without being misogynistic.

It'd be nice to have a conversation about such things without accusations of prejudice being thrown in at the first mention of gender.

Only if you think the quality of/interest in womens football is some kind of force majeure and not directly linked to misogyny and lack of opportunity.

I say give them 140 years to catch up and if it's still played to no crowds with shite goalies bin it. 

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The SWPL Highlights Show got higher viewing figures than Sunday or Saturday Sportscene last week, so one of the biggest games of the season that's live on BBC ALBA deserves to be prominently displayed/previewed.

Edited by ArabAuslander
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Only if you think the quality of/interest in womens football is some kind of force majeure and not directly linked to misogyny and lack of opportunity.
It's still possible to be given undue prominence though. They still have to try and find the appropriate level.

Thinking women's football is over exposed doesn't make you any more of a misogynist than thinking there's too much rowing in the Olympics makes you an aquaphobe.
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It's still possible to be given undue prominence though. They still have to try and find the appropriate level.

Thinking women's football is over exposed doesn't make you any more of a misogynist than thinking there's too much rowing in the Olympics makes you an aquaphobe.



I agree. No problem with Women’s Football being covered in the press. Nothing to do with misogyny. It is over exposed for political correctness reasons. Fair enough if there is a demand. However, where is the coverage of professional male football out with the top league? Clubs with decent supports who get next to no coverage in the MSM, unless one of their players/coaches/ ball boys has a connection to either half of Scotland’s disgrace?
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Champions League, Europa League & Conference League: What awaits SPFL clubs next season? - BBC Sport

Any Scottish team not called Rangers or Celtic should expect a good skelping in any European tie...apparently.

What a load of shite that article turns out to be. Yes, other Scottish teams havent exactly done well in Europe recently, but the tone of "well, they might get embarrassed" is a piss-poor and needless spin to put on it IMO.

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27 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

Champions League, Europa League & Conference League: What awaits SPFL clubs next season? - BBC Sport

Any Scottish team not called Rangers or Celtic should expect a good skelping in any European tie...apparently.

What a load of shite that article turns out to be. Yes, other Scottish teams havent exactly done well in Europe recently, but the tone of "well, they might get embarrassed" is a piss-poor and needless spin to put on it IMO.

Now that really is dreadful stuff. 

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