Genuine Hibs Fan Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 minute ago, G51 said: The flip side of this is that player trading is literally part of a clubs business model. Buying and selling players is how clubs make money. Asking clubs to cease investment in new players in exchange for government bailouts would be like asking Cineworld to stop buying new films in in exchange for a bailout. Couldn't have put it better myself. It's also implied by these daft arguments as well that all clubs have identical financial profiles when in reality they have differing borrowing thresholds, investor support, sellable assets, cash reserves etc. And of course those clubs that have spent money have also cleared a lot off their wage bill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, The-coo-shed said: You've no right to ask for government support in the future if you're spending beyond your means by splurging 250k on a player. Smack in the face to non playing staff who have been let go. What if you are not asking the government for support and are not spending beyond your means while still spending money on players? I have sympathy for anyone losing their job in the pandemic..............however all businesses need to prioritise. And if losing excess non playing staff enables a club to continue its core activity, then that is surely a decision for each club? My problem with Tom English assessment of Hibs is that his argument is incredibly simplistic and one eyed. I can guarantee that his rant about us next week wont cover the fact that HSL donates £25k per month to the club for player costs, or that people like Kamberi were on very high wages and have been moved on, or that we are not actually asking the government for money 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, G51 said: The flip side of this is that player trading is literally part of a clubs business model. Buying and selling players is how clubs make money. Asking clubs to cease investment in new players in exchange for government bailouts would be like asking Cineworld to stop buying new films in in exchange for a bailout. Buying players does not make a club money: only selling them does. If your club decides that investing in its squad with the aim of netting a profit in the long-term is within its means right now then it clearly does not need a taxpayer bailout as well. Football clubs also made use of furlough only to bin many of the employees on it anyway in the summer and hand out two year contracts to new employees in the middle of the crisis. If you choose to do that then you get little to no sympathy from a government that will have to make hard choices in propping up 'deserving' industries. Of those still affected by restrictions on their trade, football clubs wouldn't even in the top 20 priorities for support. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyFerrino Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, G51 said: The flip side of this is that player trading is literally part of a clubs business model. Buying and selling players is how clubs make money. Asking clubs to cease investment in new players in exchange for government bailouts would be like asking Cineworld to stop buying new films in in exchange for a bailout. Have to agree with the teddy bear here, and that's not something I've said often before. Hibs absolutely cannot afford to be dragged into a relegation dog fight as they've always worked out so well for us in the past. The only way that can be avoided is investment in the playing staff, and not getting humped of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, virginton said: Buying players does not make a club money: only selling them does. If your club decides that investing in its squad with the aim of netting a profit in the long-term is within its means right now then it clearly does not need a taxpayer bailout as well. Football clubs also made use of furlough only to bin many of the employees on it anyway in the summer and hand out two year contracts to new employees in the middle of the crisis. If you choose to do that then you get little to no sympathy from a government that will have to make hard choices in propping up 'deserving' industries. Of those still affected by restrictions on their trade, football clubs wouldn't even in the top 20 priorities for support. Buying players absolutely does make a club money, because it increases the likelihood of good performance in competitions where the income is performance-based. Otherwise, teams wouldn’t bother signing players at all, and would simply try and sell players from their academies. There will be plenty of companies in “deserving” industries (who even gets to decide what a deserving industry is?) who have also laid employees off and kept others on. This isn’t a valid reason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, G51 said: Buying players absolutely does make a club money, because it increases the likelihood of good performance in competitions where the income is performance-based. Otherwise, teams wouldn’t bother signing players at all, and would simply try and sell players from their academies. Increasing the likelihood of future profit is not 'making money'. You cannot stick this in the books as a profit for the year unless you want to end up £50 million plus in debt and liquidated like, say, Glasgow Rangers. Buying players is capital investment and a risky form at that. How many restaurants, bars etc. are taking the opportunity to renovate their entire business space right now? Are the owners of the Barrowlands or theatres expanding its facilities right now to make more money when live events return? The vast majority are not doing so because making capital investments is ridiculously foolish when you have absolutely no idea what your actual day to day income will be for the foreseeable future. Quote There will be plenty of companies in “deserving” industries (who even gets to decide what a deserving industry is?) who have also laid employees off and kept others on. This isn’t a valid reason. The people who get to decide what a deserving industry is are i) the government, being the only potential source of a bailout and by extension ii) the taxpayers who elect it. The SPFL continuing its business as usual model during the summer and then haranguing the government in public to lift restrictions that is impacting everyone else on a daily basis as well is only putting Scottish football clubs further the pecking order for what little support is available right now. Edited October 4, 2020 by vikingTON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Tanner continues his descent into madness. That botched cup draw ruined him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: Tanner continues his descent into madness. That botched cup draw ruined him. I think that he makes a good point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I don't have an issue with Tom English asking the question re teams paying fees. At the very least the perception of senior figures begging for government hand outs on one hand whilst offering St Mirren six figure sums for a player on the other isn't great. English has gone a bit over the top by acting as judge and jury but it's fair enough to ask the question. However, there is a balance but clubs all just slashing their budget is a fairly reductive way of doing business. It's harsh but ditching highly paid footballers does far more damage to the business than sacking Davie who works in the ticket office. You need to keep investing in the product to the extent that you can, you need to be competing for prize money and you need fans to actually want to come back to the stadium when they're allowed. The problem in Scotland is transfer fees are pretty rare outside of the OF and it's always seen as splashing excess cash. I would say Hibs signings are all of a good age, good potential, improve their team now and could be recouped and more in the future. THey can probably justify the outlay. However, there's a fair chance government will tell us to f**k off asking for hand outs, and I don't think Scottish football as a whole is doing a great job of changing that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: Tanner continues his descent into madness. That botched cup draw ruined him. We should close down Aberdeen to be consistent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: I don't have an issue with Tom English asking the question re teams paying fees. At the very least the perception of senior figures begging for government hand outs on one hand whilst offering St Mirren six figure sums for a player on the other isn't great. English has gone a bit over the top by acting as judge and jury but it's fair enough to ask the question. However, there is a balance but clubs all just slashing their budget is a fairly reductive way of doing business. It's harsh but ditching highly paid footballers does far more damage to the business than sacking Davie who works in the ticket office. You need to keep investing in the product to the extent that you can, you need to be competing for prize money and you need fans to actually want to come back to the stadium when they're allowed. The problem in Scotland is transfer fees are pretty rare outside of the OF and it's always seen as splashing excess cash. I would say Hibs signings are all of a good age, good potential, improve their team now and could be recouped and more in the future. THey can probably justify the outlay. However, there's a fair chance government will tell us to f**k off asking for hand outs, and I don't think Scottish football as a whole is doing a great job of changing that. Cant give 90% of a greenie, but agree with most of this. Just one point - Hibs have not begged for a handout. Dempster was asked for a comment on the future of Scottish Football in general and made the comment relating to Government help. While I can understand fans extrapolating that into something worthy of condemnation, English made that leap to "Hibs begging for a handout while paying 6 figure fees" without doing the basics of his journalistic role. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Green Day said: Cant give 90% of a greenie, but agree with most of this. Just one point - Hibs have not begged for a handout. Dempster was asked for a comment on the future of Scottish Football in general and made the comment relating to Government help. While I can understand fans extrapolating that into something worthy of condemnation, English made that leap to "Hibs begging for a handout while paying 6 figure fees" without doing the basics of his journalistic role. Don't worry mate, I've only counted it as 90% of a greenie. It's a blight on P&B that no decimal function has been brought into the rating system. I probably misspoke but my point was more around perception. In a week when Dempster and Ron Gordon both did interviews talking about how perilous the situation is for Scottish football, they were also offering St Mirren 6 figure fees. Hibs possibly weren't begging for a handout but they were at the forefront of pressure on government since the recent restrictions came in. Again, I do agree with you but purely on perception, given so many people do take a half arsed approach to investigating things, it wasn't fantastic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 @Dons_1988have a full greenie, I am feeling good today in the certain / oh no its gone tits up / we are signing him again / McInnes has stepped in / No its back on knowledge that Magennis will be paraded later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: Tanner continues his descent into madness. That botched cup draw ruined him. Putting aside his clear unionist agenda, he is right that Ferrier should have been punted immediately and that there is absolutely no defending what she did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Putting aside his clear unionist agenda, he is right that Ferrier should have been punted immediately and that there is absolutely no defending what she did.She was basically punted immediately though. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, craigkillie said: She was basically punted immediately though. Was she? I thought she was still there. Well good that she's been fired then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, DA Baracus said: Was she? I thought she was still there. Well good that she's been fired then. Is there not a political bit on P&B for this stuff? Spoiler Cant help myself...................She has been punted from the party but is still an independent MP - the facility for removal of a sitting MP is a bit tortuous, and is not actually at the behest of the SNP (or any other party). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Was she? I thought she was still there. Well good that she's been fired then.The SNP have removed the whip from her which is all they have the power to do. They cannot force an MP to resign. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Was she? I thought she was still there. Well good that she's been fired then. She had the whip removed and the entire party telling her to resign. Don't think they have the power to actually remove her as an MP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Haha, shows what I know about politics! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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