gannonball Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said: Remember he's a former politician and short-lived First Minister who also played semi-pro... accordingly he's seen as a football mega-achiever, and must be a super-intellect. It's a sort of administrative version of why Craig Brown is always rolled-out in his bath chair to talk about the national team, particularly under-fire managers or long-shot qualifying prospects... except Brown's prognosis is always over-positive, and McLeish's over-negative. While he was still flavour of the month in the corridors of power it became almost comical how he'd be turned-out the day before a big vote... always the day before... to throw his (paper tiger) weight behind whatever was being strong-armed. We need 10-team SPL. We need Rangers in SFL1. We need 12-12 > 8-8-8. Etc. etc. Of course the clubs said "no" every time... and catastrophe didn't follow. Worse than that... he now says he regrets some of his recommendations that were implemented - particularly SPL/SFL merger that left 11-1 voting in place, plus SFA board reforms which he feels have seen it taken-over by SPFL (and particularly Scottish Premiership) clubs. He's particularly critical about how youth development and Scotland United: 2020 Vision program was pushed aside and replaced by the nebulous concept of Project Brave, with most resources directed to the top clubs. More recently he condemned keeping lower league football shut for months, and abolishing the Performance Director post after Malky Mackay moved on. He's also questioned the motivations behind US owners Deloitte review. Quite a transformation. Back in 2010 you'd a situation where Topping + Doncaster pushed plans for 10-team SPL, with regionalisation below tier 2 plus B teams, and Henry McLeish acted as chief fan boy. Nowadays he's highly critical, indeed clearly feels 'betrayed'. EDIT: That said his "Scottish Football: Requiem or Renaissance" only ranks #2 for most self-indulgent title on the topic. Top goes to an ex-SupportersDirect supremo: Was that Paul Goodwin guy not the guy who was behind the fan ownership of Stirling Albion? Had some claim Cristiano Ronaldo was in support of it. Think he got hounded out not long after it went in to fan ownership 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Buzz Killington said: All dead now I believe. St Mirren died a little bit the day of the Celtic club shop, no? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: St Mirren died a little bit the day of the Celtic club shop, no? They did, but Stewart Milne's real actual tears revived them after they rejected the 12/12-8/8/8 nonense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 I like how they would be dead IN A MONTH!!!!! What was the working there exactly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 42 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: I like how they would be dead IN A MONTH!!!!! What was the working there exactly? I think the calculation was very sound and involved some people really, really not wanting Rangers to suffer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauriestonBairn Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 Just to go back to the champions league money. Wouldnt it be nice if the OF agreed to ring fence 10% for youth development at clubs up and down the country (Yes i am being optimistic here haha) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 Remember there was a rumour that Rangers were going to buy out St Mirren and do an Airdrie - obviously never went anywhere, thank goodness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 2 hours ago, DA Baracus said: I like how they would be dead IN A MONTH!!!!! What was the working there exactly? Did they not believe Sky would have pulled the plug on Scottish football altogether? I also seem to remember people suggesting the TV deal was void without a certain number of Celtic vs Rangers games Of course never seen anything to back this up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 24 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Did they not believe Sky would have pulled the plug on Scottish football altogether? I also seem to remember people suggesting the TV deal was void without a certain number of Celtic vs Rangers games Of course never seen anything to back this up There was a clause for old firm games but given that our chief executive was talking about ‘Armageddon’ and constantly mentioning publicly we were potentially breaking the sky deal it set us off on a terrible foot with the renegotiation with Sky when they thought they had the whole of Scottish football over a barrel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 4 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: Remember he's a former politician and short-lived First Minister who also played semi-pro... accordingly he's seen as a football mega-achiever, and must be a super-intellect. It's a sort of administrative version of why Craig Brown is always rolled-out in his bath chair to talk about the national team, particularly under-fire managers or long-shot qualifying prospects... except Brown's prognosis is always over-positive, and McLeish's over-negative. While he was still flavour of the month in the corridors of power it became almost comical how he'd be turned-out the day before a big vote... always the day before... to throw his (paper tiger) weight behind whatever was being strong-armed. We need 10-team SPL. We need Rangers in SFL1. We need 12-12 > 8-8-8. Etc. etc. Of course the clubs said "no" every time... and catastrophe didn't follow. Worse than that... he now says he regrets some of his recommendations that were implemented - particularly SPL/SFL merger that left 11-1 voting in place, plus SFA board reforms which he feels have seen it taken-over by SPFL (and particularly Scottish Premiership) clubs. He's particularly critical about how youth development and Scotland United: 2020 Vision program was pushed aside and replaced by the nebulous concept of Project Brave, with most resources directed to the top clubs. More recently he condemned keeping lower league football shut for months, and abolishing the Performance Director post after Malky Mackay moved on. He's also questioned the motivations behind US owners Deloitte review. Quite a transformation. Back in 2010 you'd a situation where Topping + Doncaster pushed plans for 10-team SPL, with regionalisation below tier 2 plus B teams, and Henry McLeish acted as chief fan boy. Nowadays he's highly critical, indeed clearly feels 'betrayed'. EDIT: That said his "Scottish Football: Requiem or Renaissance" only ranks #2 for most self-indulgent title on the topic. Top goes to an ex-SupportersDirect supremo: That cover photo looks like Shire's old ground. I don't suppose one of the suggestions was "prevent dodgy spivs taking over clubs for personal profit"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stiles Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 What an outstanding pyrrhic victory for all the pro-bigots who, in 'trying to save Scottish football', killed it. Everyone involved in the process should hang their heads in shame, if they knew what shame was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 7 hours ago, gannonball said: Wtf is Henry Mcleish always seen as some sort of oracle about Scottish football issues or am I missing something? He wrote a report that told us next to nothing and achieved nothing about a decade ago. To be honest @HibeeJibee is being kind in his write up of 'our Henry'. I would just say he's a bit of c**t. Played for East Fife got injured, went back to school and become a politician. I've had the pleasure of meeting him a few times, he shakes hands like a wet fish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 7 hours ago, Clown Job said: Did they not believe Sky would have pulled the plug on Scottish football altogether? I also seem to remember people suggesting the TV deal was void without a certain number of Celtic vs Rangers games Of course never seen anything to back this up The reality is that the deal was dependent on being able to show Celtic games and Rangers games. That's why it was renegotiated to allow SFL games to be broadcast and its it's what led ultimately to the welcome merging of the league bodies. The idea that it relied massively on OF fixtures themselves was basically fallacious. The joke of course was, that the Sky deal was of massively exaggerated significance to the wider game anyway. Its distribution model has improved a little since, but at that time it was hugely skewed in the OF's favour, in that it was given out as prize money with the top two taking relatively big and similar sums, before a huge drop-off to third. Like so much of the narrative, points made in support of some greater good, were actually in support of yet greater harm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 10 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I think the calculation was very sound and involved some people really, really not wanting Rangers to suffer. This much is clear. 9 hours ago, Ray Patterson said: Remember there was a rumour that Rangers were going to buy out St Mirren and do an Airdrie - obviously never went anywhere, thank goodness. Was there not a rumour of them doing it to Cowdenbeath as well? 9 hours ago, Clown Job said: Did they not believe Sky would have pulled the plug on Scottish football altogether? I also seem to remember people suggesting the TV deal was void without a certain number of Celtic vs Rangers games Of course never seen anything to back this up Perhaps, but unsure why that would have seen those 5 specific clubs dead within a month. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: The reality is that the deal was dependent on being able to show Celtic games and Rangers games. That's why it was renegotiated to allow SFL games to be broadcast and its it's what led ultimately to the welcome merging of the league bodies. The idea that it relied massively on OF fixtures themselves was basically fallacious. The joke of course was, that the Sky deal was of massively exaggerated significance to the wider game anyway. Its distribution model has improved a little since, but at that time it was hugely skewed in the OF's favour, in that it was given out as prize money with the top two taking relatively big and similar sums, before a huge drop-off to third. Like so much of the narrative, points made in support of some greater good, were actually in support of yet greater harm. Without the Sky deal the top flight of Scottish football may have been in trouble, imo the reason why the SPL were so desperate to 'merge' with the SFl (who held the SevTV rights). 10 hours ago, Ray Patterson said: Remember there was a rumour that Rangers were going to buy out St Mirren and do an Airdrie - obviously never went anywhere, thank goodness. Didn't one of Whyte's cronies make a joint offer with a StMirren director to buy StMirren? It's probably on the bralt if anyone can be arsed looking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 I doubt the tv deal was under any real threat. Scottish football is pocket change to sky. What it did do is give them leverage in any negotiation. As is natural when your supplier is dumb enough to negotiate a deal reliant on two clubs. But even then, when you find yourself in a position where sky have you by the balls, do you a) make a pragmatic plan to demonstrate the value of the whole league beyond the OF and show sky that what they’re paying for is worth it or b) do you run around with your hair on fire screaming that the tv deal is dead and all of the clubs are about to hit the wall unless we completely abandon any semblance of a fair pyramid system? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dysartrovers Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 To be honest [mention=11024]HibeeJibee[/mention] is being kind in his write up of 'our Henry'. I would just say he's a bit of c**t. Played for East Fife got injured, went back to school and become a politician. I've had the pleasure of meeting him a few times, he shakes hands like a wet fish.What other kind of fish is there really? [emoji1745] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, dysartrovers said: What other kind of fish is there really? I was also interested to learn that fish shake hands at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkboy Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 28 minutes ago, dysartrovers said: What other kind of fish is there really? Dried, smoked fish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 27 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: I was also interested to learn that fish shake hands at all. They do have fingers.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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