The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Doubt having to actually go to church comes into it where being a prod is concerned.

You're not much of a protestant if you don't attend public worship on a Sunday.

The only thing "protestant" about many protestants is that they are not Roman Catholics.

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

The most recent post recalling Bochel's tweet referred to Sked's Scotsman article, but Bochel, as I've said, didn't publish figures with his claim. In any case, the actual tweet you've supplied doesn't claim that Ibrox supporters, in 2018, made up the majority of Scotland Supporter Club members. It claims they make the largest individual one club group. Not that it really matters.

I never said they made up the majority of Scotland Supporter Club members? I said they made up the largest percentage, which that tweet confirms.

Edited June 9, 2021 by AJF

[Dundee Hibernian]

2 hours ago, AJF said:

Rangers fans made up the largest % of Scotland Supporter Club members

 

4 minutes ago, AJF said:

I never said they made up the majority of Scotland Supporter Club members?

I must have misunderstood you earlier. 

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

Without a doubt there are Protestants within the Rangers support, but I'd guess that the number of practicing religious people in Scotland is declining so I don't know how much that would impact it.

Now now, it's a bit disingenuous to say that churchgoing is somehow a relevant factor in this. We all know it's only a part of the tribal identity (that applies to both 'sides') and it's probably not been a major factor for half a century or more. 

I think that the previous comment nailed it - the death rattle of ulster unionism, with both Scottish independence and Irish unification looking more likely, does seem to be fuelling increasingly shrill staunchness. Possibly a bit of anger at being sold out by the English Tory government thrown into the mix.

Since we're trading experience, I know half a dozen ranger fans and every single one of them is supporting England in the Euros, and at least one has stated they want Scotland to fail. But my anecdote isn't any more valid than yours.

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Now now, it's a bit disingenuous to say that churchgoing is somehow a relevant factor in this. We all know it's only a part of the tribal identity (that applies to both 'sides') and it's probably not been a major factor for half a century or more. 

I think that the previous comment nailed it - the death rattle of ulster unionism, with both Scottish independence and Irish unification looking more likely, does seem to be fuelling increasingly shrill staunchness. Possibly a bit of anger at being sold out by the English Tory government thrown into the mix.

Since we're trading experience, I know half a dozen ranger fans and every single one of them is supporting England in the Euros, and at least one has stated they want Scotland to fail. But my anecdote isn't any more valid than yours.

Indeed, and I did go on to correct myself and say that using the term practicing was probably the wrong wording to use. I also said it will likely be a contributing factor but it can't be portrayed as the only one.

You will probably be able to give more insight. Of those half dozen Rangers fans that are supporting England at the Euro's instead of Scotland, what are their reasons? Is it as you describe above, or due to other/a combination of factors?

[VictorOnopko]

48 minutes ago, AJF said:

The source wasn’t Joel Sked, it was from the tweet below, published by Michael Bochel who was employed by the SFA as Head of Digital at the time the tweet was published.

 

If true, surprising.  Every time I have been to Hampden for a Scotland match in the past ten years or so (including one campaign as a season ticketer), almost every accent I heard around me was north-east.

The fact that fewer Celtic fans than Aberdeen fans are SSC members is pretty pathetic too given the overall fanbase numbers...

[LIVIFOREVER]

28 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

You're not much of a protestant if you don't attend public worship on a Sunday.

The only thing "protestant" about many protestants is that they are not Roman Catholics.

They worship at Ibrox, does that count?

Yeah for clarity i was talking about the "protestants" in the Sevco support, i doubt they actually go to church, but regard themselves prods for the reason you mentioned in the 2nd line of your post.

[Valentino Bolognese]

34 minutes ago, AJF said:

Indeed, and I did go on to correct myself and say that using the term practicing was probably the wrong wording to use. I also said it will likely be a contributing factor but it can't be portrayed as the only one.

You will probably be able to give more insight. Of those half dozen Rangers fans that are supporting England at the Euro's instead of Scotland, what are their reasons? Is it as you describe above, or due to other/a combination of factors?

Yes I wrote my response and then had to go on a work call and didn't catch up with the responses before posting. Should have checked the updates.

I'll have to be honest and say that I've not engaged with them about it, it was only a conversation I heard at my boy's game at the weekend and I didn't want to launch uninvited into a touchline debate with other parents . We all know each other's clubs. The only reason I picked up on it was that when they were talking about the England team they used  'we' not 'them' and it just struck me as odd. The comment about wanting Scotland to fail was specifically about the head to head vs Scotland. For the record they are not expat English, so far as I am aware. From previous conversations I know a couple of them are rabidly anti-Sturgeon, might be relevant, might not. 

So I really can't draw a line to the current state of unionism and an overheard conversation, that's a subjective personal view based mostly on the media.

ETA getting back to the piece in the Record, it's mental that gets printed. They really know their readership. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Valentino Bolognese

[Mr Heliums]

35 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

So I really can't draw a line to the current state of unionism and an overheard conversation, that's a subjective personal view based mostly on the media. 

It's always going to be a guess though – surely few Rangers fans would admit to supporting England in a football match because they fear the United Kingdom is under threat. That would sound pathetic. I suspect other reasons, such as fans supposedly booing Ryan Jack or the SFA, would be offered, even if they don't stand up to reasonable scrutiny either.

I read an article in the papers weeks back about Rangers fans in George Square and the writer's surprise at their anger, considering they'd just won the title. But it makes more sense of you consider the wider cultural backdrop. 

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, VictorOnopko said:

If true, surprising.  Every time I have been to Hampden for a Scotland match in the past ten years or so (including one campaign as a season ticketer), almost every accent I heard around me was north-east.

The fact that fewer Celtic fans than Aberdeen fans are SSC members is pretty pathetic too given the overall fanbase numbers...

There are Sevco fans all over the country, so an accent isn't exactly a firm indicator of who someone supports. We all know nests of these cretinous bigots exists all over Scotland sadly.

Also that tweet is proof of nothing. No figures or sources are noted.

[Guest TheJTS98]

I know a few Rangers fans who 'support' England and hope Scotland lose etc. But they're thick neds. They think this way because their mates, also thick neds, think that way. They think it gives them staunch points. But asking them for a political, religious, or philosophical rationale for it would be like asking a sponge to tell you about its favourite film.

I don't know any Rangers supporters who aren't brain dead morons (can stop sentence here etc etc) outside football who have this view.

I do love the idea that Rangers fans started supporting England because of Gazza. I'm pleased by it. If Scotland get a pasting from the Czechs, I'll just decide I support Rudi's team.

Edited June 9, 2021 by TheJTS98

[AJF]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

There are Sevco fans all over the country, so an accent isn't exactly a firm indicator of who someone supports. We all know nests of these cretinous bigots exists all over Scotland sadly.

Also that tweet is proof of nothing. No figures or sources are noted.

The tweet was from an SFA employee who had access to the information in his role as Head of Digital. His source was the Scotland Supporters Club membership renewal in 2018 which he mentioned in the thread of tweets. I'd be surprised if he got that wrong.

Edited June 9, 2021 by AJF

[Ric]

While it's not journalism, per se, it is inaccurate reporting...

It seems the official SPFL website thinks Kilmarnock have signed Paul McGinn. Presumably much to the surprise of Paul, and no less Stephen who is the player actually joining them.

https://spfl.co.uk/news/summer-signings-47729

 

[RandomGuy.]

Ian Black wasn't even booed because he played for Rangers, the decision to call up, then play, a 4th tier player who had peaked about 12 months ago was what was being booed.

[Dons_1988]

11 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

"So how did we get to this point? Perhaps we can rewind to the mid-1980s, when Graeme Souness lured England internationals like Terry Butcher and Chris Woods to Ibrox. Whenever these guys represented their country there was a whole host of Bears tuning in. But the majority of Rangers supporters still followed Scotland.

When the Geordie genius Gazza joined Rangers in 1995, a few more made the switch from the dark blue of Scotland to the iconic white top of England."

Imagine writing that and thinking it’s a good, solid argument. 

[IrishBhoy]

On 05/06/2021 at 07:24, RandomGuy. said:

It's remarkable how the Scottish media simply cannot prevent themselves twisting every story to include the OF.

Unfortunately for us these tactics work for them, especially when it comes to links on social media that rely on clicks/visits to drive advertisement. I’ve stopped getting worked up about it because unless 75% of OF fans start supporting someone else, it’s never going to change. They are the biggest demographic and for that reason the media will continue to aim content towards them. If they can get 100k more clicks on a story by saying ‘ex-Rangers’ then they aren’t going to stop doing it to appease St. Mirren or Falkirk fans. 

[Mark Connolly]

11 hours ago, The Minertaur said:

What are the 3 reasons?  Rangers died. Some people booed Rangers players.  Duncan Ferguson got a 12 match ban almost 30 years ago.

Is that the 3 reasons?  

Don't forget charging them twice for that abandoned game...

[Moomintroll]

5 hours ago, Ric said:

While it's not journalism, per se, it is inaccurate reporting...

It seems the official SPFL website thinks Kilmarnock have signed Paul McGinn. Presumably much to the surprise of Paul, and no less Stephen who is the player actually joining them.

https://spfl.co.uk/news/summer-signings-47729

 

Can we get that typo corrected to say John McGinn, that is practically a contractual obligation.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

21 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Doubt having to actually go to church comes into it where being a prod is concerned.

 

That’s a fairly extreme interpretation of Martin Luther’s doctrine of universal priesthood

But you’re entitled to hold it

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[craigkillie]

20 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

If true, surprising.  Every time I have been to Hampden for a Scotland match in the past ten years or so (including one campaign as a season ticketer), almost every accent I heard around me was north-east.

The fact that fewer Celtic fans than Aberdeen fans are SSC members is pretty pathetic too given the overall fanbase numbers...

That's because those are the fuckers that never shut up and want to broadcast their awful opinions to the rest of the stadium.