The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[kingjoey]

Just read the daily Gossip page on the BBC website and one story caught my eye. It says that Celtic are hoping to have 30,000 fans in Celtic Park by the end of August, which is obviously a helluva lot less than their season ticket total. Can I suggest that the club have an easy way to allocate these tickets. Just let everyone that turned up to home matches while Rangers were in the lower leagues have a ticket. That would then leave only 5,000 tickets to be allocated in a ballot.

[ribzanelli]

16 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

If he was able to even take on the notion that there are other opinions than his he'd be tolerable. I'd think he's a bit of a clown but no more than anyone else and indeed, he'd have a bit of stock in the bank ahead of some others but he's been an arrogant w**k spearheading the cause for Hearts and everyone else are scumbags for getting in Hearts' way.

Totally agree. One of the biggest problems with English is his inability to understand the various factors boards will have considered when coming to a decision. He has distilled it down to yes to reconstruction = selfless and willing to share the pain, no to reconstruction = selfish b*****ds.  Keeps going on about how SPFL board should come up with reconstruction but surely it was in Hearts interests to be involved? Never considers that AB put forward a bunch of poorly thought out and poorly articulated proposals without contacting lower league chairman to lobby for support.

[Loonytoons]

9 hours ago, ribzanelli said:

Totally agree. One of the biggest problems with English is his inability to understand the various factors boards will have considered when coming to a decision. He has distilled it down to yes to reconstruction = selfless and willing to share the pain, no to reconstruction = selfish b*****ds.  Keeps going on about how SPFL board should come up with reconstruction but surely it was in Hearts interests to be involved? Never considers that AB put forward a bunch of poorly thought out and poorly articulated proposals without contacting lower league chairman to lobby for support.

 

That bridge was truly burned many moons ago and she knew it.

[atfccfc]

What the actual...?! 

Linking the timeline of Liverpool's title wins with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of human beings from a pandemic and two illegal wars. 

[Ric]

1 minute ago, atfccfc said:

Linking the timeline of Liverpool's title wins with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of human beings from a pandemic and two illegal wars. 

No mention of Margaret Thatcher and her death? Something that would equally please most scoucers.

[Golden Gordon]

3 minutes ago, atfccfc said:

What the actual...?! 

Linking the timeline of Liverpool's title wins with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of human beings from a pandemic and two illegal wars. 

High price for the rest of us to pay just so that Liverpool can have another league title.  Wonder what the consequences for humanity would be if a team outside the OF* were to win the Premiership?

But you're right, fairly insensitive reporting. 

[Tannadeechee]

Just incase anyone wishes to know what the BBC think of Tom English & his performance during recent weeks this is the response from them to my complaint...

Thank you for contacting us. We’ve received a range of feedback about our coverage of Hearts, the SPFL and recent events in Scottish football, in particular with regards to contributions by Tom English, and have shared your comments with the relevant BBC Sport Scotland teams and senior management.

Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism, and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. All our journalists, presenters and editors are well aware of our key commitments to due impartiality and accuracy. We report the news emanating from Scottish football with due impartiality, irrespective of the clubs or parties involved, and any suggestion to the contrary is without foundation.

Our guidelines explain that ‘due’ impartiality involves more than a simple ‘balance’ between opposing viewpoints. An article or discussion, for example, may therefore allow someone’s opinion or views to be expressed but still be ‘duly’ impartial. And coverage should be considered across a broader range of output than one particular incident or item.

We’ve published numerous articles and broadcast hours of debates and interviews on the SPFL vote chaos, the SPFL-commissioned investigation, the calls for an independent inquiry, league reconstruction proposals and the ending of the season, which resulted in the relegations of Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer from their respective divisions. A wide range of views have been heard across our output, and we’ve heard from all sides of the debate.

As BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it’s part of Tom English’s role to provide his insight and understanding of the stories emanating from Scottish football. His observations along with any assessments of the context, reasons and politics behind them and the reaction to them are, again, entirely consistent with his role. And others, of course, are free to disagree with his analysis.

That said, we are satisfied that Tom English’s contributions to our recent output on these issues has represented fair analysis and comment.

Thank you again for getting in touch.

BBC Complaints Team 
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Just incase anyone wishes to know what the BBC think of Tom English & his performance during recent weeks this is the response from them to my complaint...
Thank you for contacting us. We’ve received a range of feedback about our coverage of Hearts, the SPFL and recent events in Scottish football, in particular with regards to contributions by Tom English, and have shared your comments with the relevant BBC Sport Scotland teams and senior management.

Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism, and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. All our journalists, presenters and editors are well aware of our key commitments to due impartiality and accuracy. We report the news emanating from Scottish football with due impartiality, irrespective of the clubs or parties involved, and any suggestion to the contrary is without foundation.

Our guidelines explain that ‘due’ impartiality involves more than a simple ‘balance’ between opposing viewpoints. An article or discussion, for example, may therefore allow someone’s opinion or views to be expressed but still be ‘duly’ impartial. And coverage should be considered across a broader range of output than one particular incident or item.

We’ve published numerous articles and broadcast hours of debates and interviews on the SPFL vote chaos, the SPFL-commissioned investigation, the calls for an independent inquiry, league reconstruction proposals and the ending of the season, which resulted in the relegations of Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer from their respective divisions. A wide range of views have been heard across our output, and we’ve heard from all sides of the debate.

As BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it’s part of Tom English’s role to provide his insight and understanding of the stories emanating from Scottish football. His observations along with any assessments of the context, reasons and politics behind them and the reaction to them are, again, entirely consistent with his role. And others, of course, are free to disagree with his analysis.

That said, we are satisfied that Tom English’s contributions to our recent output on these issues has represented fair analysis and comment.

Thank you again for getting in touch.
BBC Complaints Team 
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints  

That is word for word the same reply that they gave me today.

"Thank you for contacting us. We’ve received a range of feedback about our coverage of Hearts, the SPFL and recent events in Scottish football, in particular with regards to contributions by Tom English, and have shared your comments with the relevant BBC Sport Scotland teams and senior management.

Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism, and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. All our journalists, presenters and editors are well aware of our key commitments to due impartiality and accuracy. We report the news emanating from Scottish football with due impartiality, irrespective of the clubs or parties involved, and any suggestion to the contrary is without foundation.

Our guidelines explain that ‘due’ impartiality involves more than a simple ‘balance’ between opposing viewpoints. An article or discussion, for example, may therefore allow someone’s opinion or views to be expressed but still be ‘duly’ impartial. And coverage should be considered across a broader range of output than one particular incident or item.

We’ve published numerous articles and broadcast hours of debates and interviews on the SPFL vote chaos, the SPFL-commissioned investigation, the calls for an independent inquiry, league reconstruction proposals and the ending of the season, which resulted in the relegations of Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer from their respective divisions. A wide range of views have been heard across our output, and we’ve heard from all sides of the debate.

As BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it’s part of Tom English’s role to provide his insight and understanding of the stories emanating from Scottish football. His observations along with any assessments of the context, reasons and politics behind them and the reaction to them are, again, entirely consistent with his role. And others, of course, are free to disagree with his analysis.

That said, we are satisfied that Tom English’s contributions to our recent output on these issues has represented fair analysis and comment.

Thank you again for getting in touch.


BBC Complaints Team"

[Tannadeechee]

17 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That is word for word the same reply that they gave me today.

"Thank you for contacting us. We’ve received a range of feedback about our coverage of Hearts, the SPFL and recent events in Scottish football, in particular with regards to contributions by Tom English, and have shared your comments with the relevant BBC Sport Scotland teams and senior management.

Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism, and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. All our journalists, presenters and editors are well aware of our key commitments to due impartiality and accuracy. We report the news emanating from Scottish football with due impartiality, irrespective of the clubs or parties involved, and any suggestion to the contrary is without foundation.

Our guidelines explain that ‘due’ impartiality involves more than a simple ‘balance’ between opposing viewpoints. An article or discussion, for example, may therefore allow someone’s opinion or views to be expressed but still be ‘duly’ impartial. And coverage should be considered across a broader range of output than one particular incident or item.

We’ve published numerous articles and broadcast hours of debates and interviews on the SPFL vote chaos, the SPFL-commissioned investigation, the calls for an independent inquiry, league reconstruction proposals and the ending of the season, which resulted in the relegations of Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer from their respective divisions. A wide range of views have been heard across our output, and we’ve heard from all sides of the debate.

As BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it’s part of Tom English’s role to provide his insight and understanding of the stories emanating from Scottish football. His observations along with any assessments of the context, reasons and politics behind them and the reaction to them are, again, entirely consistent with his role. And others, of course, are free to disagree with his analysis.

That said, we are satisfied that Tom English’s contributions to our recent output on these issues has represented fair analysis and comment.

Thank you again for getting in touch.


BBC Complaints Team"
 

Yup, it's just a cut and paste job. They must have had a few complaints in and think if they send that out that will be the end of it.

It's not. I have a case number and I'm taking it further. There have been other occasions where I felt I should have said something over the years, but the bit is between the teeth now. Ultimately it may do nothing, but I cannot let his/their output continue to insult my intelligence.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Tannadeechee

[DA Baracus]

3 hours ago, Tannadeechee said:

Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism, and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. All our journalists, presenters and editors are well aware of our key commitments to due impartiality and accuracy. We report the news emanating from Scottish football with due impartiality, irrespective of the clubs or parties involved, and any suggestion to the contrary is without foundation.

The fucking nerve of that 

[Tannadeechee]

25 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

The fucking nerve of that 

Yup I'd say

 

"... SPFL vote chaos."

 

shows that they do have and are showing bias. I find it astounding that they can put that into writing that all views have been aired! Any dissenting views, however few,have been rounded on and talk over in a condescending manner by English since the vote.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Tannadeechee

[Mr. X]

14 hours ago, Tannadeechee said:

Just incase anyone wishes to know what the BBC think of Tom English & his performance during recent weeks this is the response from them to my complaint...

Thank you for contacting us. We’ve received a range of feedback about our coverage of Hearts, the SPFL and recent events in Scottish football, in particular with regards to contributions by Tom English, and have shared your comments with the relevant BBC Sport Scotland teams and senior management.

Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism, and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. All our journalists, presenters and editors are well aware of our key commitments to due impartiality and accuracy. We report the news emanating from Scottish football with due impartiality, irrespective of the clubs or parties involved, and any suggestion to the contrary is without foundation.

Our guidelines explain that ‘due’ impartiality involves more than a simple ‘balance’ between opposing viewpoints. An article or discussion, for example, may therefore allow someone’s opinion or views to be expressed but still be ‘duly’ impartial. And coverage should be considered across a broader range of output than one particular incident or item.

We’ve published numerous articles and broadcast hours of debates and interviews on the SPFL vote chaos, the SPFL-commissioned investigation, the calls for an independent inquiry, league reconstruction proposals and the ending of the season, which resulted in the relegations of Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer from their respective divisions. A wide range of views have been heard across our output, and we’ve heard from all sides of the debate.

As BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it’s part of Tom English’s role to provide his insight and understanding of the stories emanating from Scottish football. His observations along with any assessments of the context, reasons and politics behind them and the reaction to them are, again, entirely consistent with his role. And others, of course, are free to disagree with his analysis.

That said, we are satisfied that Tom English’s contributions to our recent output on these issues has represented fair analysis and comment.

Thank you again for getting in touch.

BBC Complaints Team 
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

 

Complaining to the BBC because you don't agree with the opinion of Tom English, fucking pathetic behaviour.

Not to worry you'll get plenty of support on here from similar types to yourself. 

[Empty It]

Complaining to the BBC because you don't agree with the opinion of Tom English, fucking pathetic behaviour.
Not to worry you'll get plenty of support on here from similar types to yourself. 

Calm down Tom, looks like they're backing you to the high heavens.

[JamesM82]

 

 

1. Hibs aren't scrapping their youth system.

2. It didn't earn 13 million while he was the manager. Most of the young players that they later sold were going nowhere fast under him. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by JamesM82

[Tannadeechee]

1 hour ago, Mr. X said:

Complaining to the BBC because you don't agree with the opinion of Tom English, fucking pathetic behaviour.

Not to worry you'll get plenty of support on here from similar types to yourself. 

How is it? Please explain using a coherent argument.

He is paid by a public broadcaster that we all have to pay for. He is not being open minded nor balanced.

He IS however being dismissive, condescending and obtuse. He will not accept arguments put forward from people involved with other clubs ( doesn't have to agree, but accept where they are coming from). He is twisting the truth, misquoting people, and ignoring truths if they do not fit. Everybody is wrong except him. Sorry but that is bollocks! The hypocrisy in some of his protestations as been "off the charts". Some of his behaviour and writings have been childish in the extreme.

He IS supposed to be a professional journalist & is BBC Scotland's chief sports writer, therefore he should be going for the 3 sides to the story. What side A says, what side B says and then the truth. He has shown none of that. This is coming from someone who prior to all this.would support him whether I agreed or not with his take ie respected him as a journalist.

If he was on a fan podcast - acceptable

If he was on a commercial station - acceptable (or at least they aren't built on journalistic integrity and need to "jazz" things up for  listeners/advertising).

In a fanzine - acceptable

On a public service broadcaster, with clear guidelines, paid for out of my pocket - unaceptable 

He is not alone in this, the Sportsound output over last 8 weeks has been poor and one sided.

Until the court papers were lodged I didn't have a vested interest in this, so I had no "bias" towards a side, no direct emotional attachment to any side. But the show is becoming unlistenable. They have had multiple complaints, from fans across the Scottish football spectrum, is everyone anti Hearts? Really?

 

[Mr. X]

9 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

How is it? Please explain using a coherent argument.

He is paid by a public broadcaster that we all have to pay for. He is not being open minded nor balanced.

He IS however being dismissive, condescending and obtuse. He will not accept arguments put forward from people involved with other clubs ( doesn't have to agree, but accept where they are coming from). He is twisting the truth, misquoting people, and ignoring truths if they do not fit. Everybody is wrong except him. Sorry but that is bollocks! The hypocrisy in some of his protestations as been "off the charts". Some of his behaviour and writings have been childish in the extreme.

He IS supposed to be a professional journalist & is BBC Scotland's chief sports writer, therefore he should be going for the 3 sides to the story. What side A says, what side B says and then the truth. He has shown none of that. This is coming from someone who prior to all this.would support him whether I agreed or not with his take ie respected him as a journalist.

If he was on a fan podcast - acceptable

If he was on a commercial station - acceptable (or at least they aren't built on journalistic integrity and need to "jazz" things up for  listeners/advertising).

In a fanzine - acceptable

On a public service broadcaster, with clear guidelines, paid for out of my pocket - unaceptable 

He is not alone in this, the Sportsound output over last 8 weeks has been poor and one sided.

Until the court papers were lodged I didn't have a vested interest in this, so I had no "bias" towards a side, no direct emotional attachment to any side. But the show is becoming unlistenable. They have had multiple complaints, from fans across the Scottish football spectrum, is everyone anti Hearts? Really?

 

I would imagine if the show was as unpopular as you believe they would drop Tom English very quickly.  Instead they have very recently given him his own podcast. 

Perhaps your views aren't  as widespread as you believe, but Instead limited to a certain very small minority of fans, who are incredibly defensive regarding any negative views of their clubs actions.  The type of supporters that love the sound of their own opinion but complain about that of others.  You'll find them all over social media and highly concentrated in places Pie and Bovril, for example. 

Keep complaining, no doubt you're providing entertainment to some bored clerk in the complaints department. 

[hearthammer]

2 hours ago, Mr. X said:

Complaining to the BBC because you don't agree with the opinion of Tom English, fucking pathetic behaviour.

Not to worry you'll get plenty of support on here from similar types to yourself. 

But if it was Hibs who had been utter sh*te all season and were the (undeserved given the pandemic) big losers in the Premiership, would you be as nonplussed as you appear to be now if he was out on a limb for Leean Dempster against the majority ??

Je crois non.

[DA Baracus]

31 minutes ago, Mr. X said:

who are incredibly defensive regarding any negative views of their clubs actions.  The type of supporters that love the sound of their own opinion but complain about that of others. 

Such as yourself over the past few weeks.

[Tannadeechee]

12 minutes ago, Mr. X said:

I would imagine if the show was as unpopular as you believe they would drop Tom English very quickly.  Instead they have very recently given him his own podcast. 

Perhaps your views aren't  as widespread as you believe, but Instead limited to a certain very small minority of fans, who are incredibly defensive regarding any negative views of their clubs actions.  The type of supporters that love the sound of their own opinion but complain about that of others.  You'll find them all over social media and highly concentrated in places Pie and Bovril, for example. 

Keep complaining, no doubt you're providing entertainment to some bored clerk in the complaints department. 

You might want to read that back out loud standing in front of a mirror.

No there are vast numbers of them. Most NORMAL people have no issue with differing views. 

I have no issue with what my club,  or how ANY club voted in the open and democratic vote taken due to

Shut down of all sport

Inability to continue season

Financial difficulties faced by many clubs due to no income

Complications, due to new broadcasting contract for new season.

What I have issue with is myopic, tunnel vision that states "everybody else other than my view is wrong", type attitudes. There is no black and white there is shades of grey. If people have read the proposals that have been voted on, really read them, not the headline but the small print. The small print that we do not appear to have seen but the clubs have (I assume Tom English has) and have them voted for what ever side they felt in their understanding to be the best option how can they be "wrong"? I would have thought an intelligent, experienced journalist would understand that. Might disagree with the outcome, but understand that. Both he and the show are struggling to comprehend that.

I can fully except other opinions, as said, but  really cannot stand, condescending attitudes, such as yourself and Tom English's recent output, talking over people, telling them their opinion is wrong, arguing from a position using untruths (ICT's statements), ignoring facts because they don't fit rather than accepting them & realising the shades of grey. There is more but as you STILL cannot engage without name-calling and put forward arguments that I am mistaken (will hold my hands. up and accept that, as.you can not be right all the time ), or indeed show humility where it can be shown his arguments have NOT been balanced nor accepted the nuances that others' opinions may have, I can only assume you have neither the ability nor facts to back it up.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Yup, it's just a cut and paste job. They must have had a few complaints in and think if they send that out that will be the end of it.
It's not. I have a case number and I'm taking it further. There have been other occasions where I felt I should have said something over the years, but the bit is between the teeth now. Ultimately it may do nothing, but I cannot let his/their output continue to insult my intelligence.

Same here