When will indyref2 happen?

[lichtgilphead]

Right, so you agree that we can subdivide the result however we want to by excluding consituencies within the electorate. 

Thank you for conceding the point. 

I choose to exclude the constituencies within England, Wales, Northern Ireland & Gibraltar.

Every constituency in Scotland voted remain, therefore Scotland voted remain.

Edited January 31, 2020 by lichtgilphead

[Baxter Parp]

5 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

I never said it was a UK-only referendum.

Yeah, you did.

[Baxter Parp]

3 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

No, that’s how you wish to do it, by saying Scotland voted remain etc etc. The main point is that, the majority of voters voted to Leave, therefore we leave, that’s how democracy works. I think you just need to accept that. 

Is Scotland a nation or a region of the United Kingdom?

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, AB de Villiers said:

It’s a country that is part of the United Kingdom. Now can you point out where I said it was a UK-only election, since you seem to think I did?

 

"Country and State are synonymous terms that both apply to self-governing political entities"

https://www.infoplease.com/world/general-world-statistics/state-country-and-nation

Try again, bud.

[lichtgilphead]

1 minute ago, AB de Villiers said:

No, that’s how you wish to do it, by saying Scotland voted remain etc etc. The main point is that, the majority of voters voted to Leave, therefore we leave, that’s how democracy works. I think you just need to accept that. 

Tarmo, I accept that the majority of the electorate involved (UK + Gibraltar) voted leave in 2016

I also accept that Scotland voted No in 2014, partly because many voters were persuaded by Better Together's lies that No meant remaining in the EU and Yes meant we were out of the EU.

As circumstances have materially changed since 2014, I would welcome an opportunity to choose between being part of the EU as an independent Scotland or remaining part of an isolationist UK.

I believe that a majority of voters resident in Scotland would welcome an opportunity to settle the matter.

Why do Yoons seem unwilling to put it to the test?

[AUFC90]

I never said mandates cannot come from elections. The SNP have a mandate to govern in Holyrood as they were voted in, same as the Tories have a mandate to govern the UK. Brexit was mandated as the British public voted for it, same as Scotland was mandated to stay in the UK in 2014. 
 
There has to be consistent support for independence over AT LEAST a year. In the last 4 years, 68 opinion polls have been held and 65 have returned an anti-independence result. Voting for SNP, as I have said many times, does not mean you are backing independence. Until their is a consistent show of support (aka not a 51% poll once every 2 years) then there really is no case for indyref2.

At least a year ? Who says ? You ? Since when the f**k did mandates gets acquired through polling companies phoning random people ya numpty ?

[AUFC90]

What about people that don’t fully agree with any party, and vote in the party they agree with most? Or the people that tactically vote? 
 
Only somebody who can only respond via personal insults would struggle to see these valid points.
 
p.s. - SNP have not done ‘the thing’. They’ve also not ‘stopped Boris’ or ‘stopped Brexit’ either, so their record on delivering promises is looking a bit shakey here...

Ok, there's a group of people who don't quite fit the mould for a mandate because they don't quite agree with everything.

I know what we should do....poll them [emoji23]

Canny believe I'm reading this pish.

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, AB de Villiers said:

Scotland is a country that is part of a Union. It does have it’s own government m9, but it is within a Union that it votes as. Your attempt to look smart has spectacularly backfired, leave the debate to people who are actually educated, champ.

Scotland is not self-governing, you dim bulb.  Scotland did not grant itself devolution.

[git-intae-thum]

7 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

Scotland is a country that is part of a Union. It does have it’s own government m9, but it is within a Union that it votes as. 

The UK is a country that was part of a union. It does have its own government m9, but was within a union that it voted as.

...........

Prior to 2016 only moon howlers believed the UK should leave the EU.

There was never any poll that showed a majority in favour.

The EU allowed them the vote.

 

Do you see the wee contradiction in your position.

Edited January 31, 2020 by git-intae-thum
Typo

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, AB de Villiers said:

The definition of a country is one that has it’s own government. You posting a made up definition from whatever website you like doesn’t change that. There is more than one type of country, Scotland being a constituent country as part of the United Kingdom.

Please refrain from personal insults next time you get destroyed, m9.

Scotland does not have it's own government, you deluded clown. It has a devolved authority granted by the caprice of the government of the United Kingdom.  That's why they called it the Scottish Executive. That's why they consider it no more a government than an English County Council.

[Baxter Parp]

6 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

The Scottish Government is the devolved GOVERNMENT of Scotland. 
 

Absolutely destroyed once again, but you have spectacularly deflected from the original issue here, and are making yourself look like the ‘deluded clown’.

Another ignorant right-wing c**t with fewer brain cells than posts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6974798.stm

"Scottish Executive renames itself"

Devolved governance is clearly not self-governance, anyway. You're tying yourself in knots and then declaring yourself a genius. You're Donald Trump, bud.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Baxter Parp

[Baxter Parp]

2 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

 

I never said Scotland was self-governed, champ. I said it has a government, which it does. It has a devolved government as part of the United Kingdom.

Keep making thing up though, you look very intelligent, champ.

 

Then it's not a fucking country then, is it?  Countries are self-governed. Are you usually this dense?

[lichtgilphead]

18 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

Scotland is a country that is part of a Union. It does have it’s own government m9, but it is within a Union that it votes as. Your attempt to look smart has spectacularly backfired, leave the debate to people who are actually educated, champ.

This is a fair post. The circumstances have changed, and I wouldn’t be totally against indyref2 as I have previously stated. But my point is that while circumstances have changed, there doesn’t appear to a majority that want independence. I also take issue with several Nats saying that Westminster is denying democracy. They really aren’t, they are denying what a certain minority of individuals want, but that’s not undemocratic in any way. 
 

I am not totally against indyref2, however I think due to the cost of it to taxpayers, we should wait until there is a clear and consistent majority that want it. Posts like the one below will be ignored from now on as they are just drunken, petty and aggressive insults which add nothing to the debate.

1) How do you know it's a minority? The only legitimate test is a referendum or election. We are not being offered a referendum and by the FPTP rules in the most recent Westminster election, the main independence-supporting party stormed it.

2) Did a majority of UK taxpayers agree to the £1bn bung to the DUP under May? How about the ~£40bn per year for Trident , the ~£108bn for HS2, or the ~18bn for crossrail?

If I recall correctly, Malky suggests Indyref2 will cost £11 million. There were roughly 4.3 million registered voters in Indyref1

Would you deny a democraric vote to save yourself the cost of a pint?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/31/david-cameron-accounts-brexit-vote-2016

David Cameron has made over 1.6 million, since being the Tory khunt that sent this chaos into motion. 

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

28 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

Countries don’t have to be self governed, they have to have a government, which Scotland has. There are many types of countries, a constituent country being one. Scotland is a constituent country as part of the UK.

Why are you getting so angry and throwing about personal insults? Are you annoyed that democracy has been fulfilled?

'Power devolved is power retained'. 

You fucking dick. Champ. 

[lichtgilphead]

23 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

3. It’s not really denying a democratic vote too. I’m sure the majority of the country would love the government to pay us all a lump sum of £1bn into our banks. Should we have a democratic vote on that? It’s really not as simple to say ‘let’s keep voting’ as it’s more complex than bits of paper at a polling station. Given how much the SNP want to increase taxes, I’d rather it was spent on the good of the country for the timebeing, but I’m not opposed to indyref2 is support is shown.

There's not much point in having a billion pounds if the government has to issue £60,000,000,000,000,000,000 in worthless toilet paper to finance it.

I'm a solid no to that vote, as would be anyone with a wage or with savings.

I'm also not suggesting we keep voting again & again & again. If we vote against independence in the current circumstances, I won't expect another vote in my lifetime if there;s not an even more cataclysmic change in circumstances in the UK union.

Can you also explain 1) Why you believe that the SNP will be in government in an independent Scotland & 2) What insight you have into the SNP's taxation plans after independence.

Anyway, as I'm sure you are perfectly aware, we will still have elections after independence. If voters are unhappy with taxation levels, they can express their opinion with "bits of paper at a polling station". That's how democracy works.

Edited January 31, 2020 by lichtgilphead

[DAFC.]

A generation after IndyRef1.

Hi Kinky,

Where in the Smith commission does it say “a generation has to pass before another referendum can be granted”?

I await your reply.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, DAFC. said:

 

Hi Kinky,

Where in the Smith commission does it say “a generation has to pass before another referendum can be granted”?

I await your reply.

 

Hi DAFC.  No idea and why does it matter?

No need to reply as it will be the usual Yesser dross.

[John Lambies Doos]

If people had told me back in 2015, that by 2020 Eng would be taking the UK out of the EU and that Boris Johnson would be PM I would have pissed myself laughing in disbelief. If they then told be that independence support was only at 50% in Scotland I'd have had them committed.

Unbelievable!

 

 

[DAFC.]

They have consistently increased my taxes

If you earn over 30k a year, then that’s good that you’re getting taxed more. That should always be the case to make sure there are services to help the vulnerable in this country that are decimated by welfare reform by right-wing lunatics in Westminster ie Universal Credit.