git-intae-thum Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Hilarious patter from some of the boards Britnats here. "I used used to be pro independence n aw that till a grew up" type nonsense. The phrase that comes to mind is: "I smell..........shiiite." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said: We did this in 2014 and nothing has changed. Oh maybe you think orchestrated dummy-spitting provides you with, "an overwhelming democratic mandate." Eh.... we are out the EU tonight. Did you forget. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Why so scared of a second vote? Fucking creaming it incase Scotland is actually able to govern her own affairs ffs, utterly bat-shit mental are unionists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said: The same union that Scotland democratically voted to be part of? The EU? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said: So yeah, a load of absolute drivel. Westminster have not denied a single bit of democracy. The SNP being voted into power in Holyrood and the SNP winning a vast majority of Scottish votes at the 2019GE does NOT equal a mandate for indyref2. A majority of MSPs passing some sort of proposal for indyref2 is NOT a democratic mandate for indyref2. Scottish polls showing 3 out of the last 68 polls returning an independence preference, funnily enough, does NOT equal a democratic mandate for indyref2. The Tories do NOT ‘need a mandate to determine how Scotland governs itself’. Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom, DEMOCRATICALLY. It seems you have a lot of trouble with the meaning of democracy, which isn’t surprising considering you wanted Brexit cancelled, undemocratically. This is how people justify denying democratic votes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said: A mandate for what? Running the country that they were democratically voted in to run? The same union that Scotland democratically voted to be part of? What mandate do the Tories have to determine the future of Scotland? Edited January 31, 2020 by git-intae-thum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Do the Conservative party have a mandate? Unionism does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Hilarious patter from some of the boards Britnats here. "I used used to be pro independence n aw that till a grew up" type nonsense. The phrase that comes to mind is: "I smell..........shiiite." Says the forums 12 year old..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Malky3 said: Unionism does. Does it. Let's put it to the test. I think I know a way how. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: Why so scared of a second vote? Fucking creaming it incase Scotland is actually able to govern her own affairs ffs, utterly bat-shit mental are unionists. It costs around £11m to hold a Scottish Indy Referendum. If the SNP are willing to pay for it out of their own money I'd be more comfortable with the idea of us doing it all again just to tell the Nationalists to f**k off again. But when the expectation is that the taxpayer will keep funding these endless re-runs then its a naw from me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, NotThePars said: Think it’s becoming apparent that Sturgeon had been banking on a Corbyn minority government to negotiate a referendum largely contingent on the outcome of the 2021 Holyrood elections. They look rudderless now that they’re having to try and negotiate with a hard-right Tory government which is never going to be moved by any democratic mandate, and will probably pull shenanigans to avoid any court ruling which may go against them. I doubt she was banking on that as it was never particularly likely. She's banking on the Scottish people moving towards independence in sufficient numbers that it makes the blocking of a referendum indefensible. If it gets to the point a clear and consistent majority want one, at some point London needs to face up to that. I don't think it makes Sturgeon or Scotland look weak at all. On the other hand, I totally disagree that policy should be dictated by YouGov or any other polling company. It's by elections we decide things in this country. It may mean creating a pro-referendum coalition and looking for over 50% support in an election. The SNP and Greens are at 46%. It's as good a mandate as anything ever used to do most things but it's not completely explicit. I'm not sure what the pro-Pariiament Labour and SNP vote was before 1997 but i'm sure it was more than 50%. I've never been more sure Scotland will be independent than now. The generational change is clear and it's not all Braveheart stuff. It's a gradual changing of the guard. Even if you don't support independence, I see people wanting Scotland to be better and fed up of being told we're crap all the time. I think a lot of people, ultimately, just want Scotland to be better and the unionists seem to be losing any kind of positive vision. Edited January 31, 2020 by tirso 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 is endless now by the way everyone. Surprised at the lack of protests at the endless general elections we've had since 2014. Bojo said the last election was once in a generation as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said: So yeah, a load of absolute drivel. Westminster have not denied a single bit of democracy. The SNP being voted into power in Holyrood and the SNP winning a vast majority of Scottish votes at the 2019GE does NOT equal a mandate for indyref2. A majority of MSPs passing some sort of proposal for indyref2 is NOT a democratic mandate for indyref2. Scottish polls showing 3 out of the last 68 polls returning an independence preference, funnily enough, does NOT equal a democratic mandate for indyref2. The Tories do NOT ‘need a mandate to determine how Scotland governs itself’. Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom, DEMOCRATICALLY. It seems you have a lot of trouble with the meaning of democracy, which isn’t surprising considering you wanted Brexit cancelled, undemocratically. What is a mandate for holding another independence referendum in your view? Does it matter what Scottish citizens think from now until 2050? Or is entirely up to whether Boris Johnson or an individual Prime Minister's feeling lucky one day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said: The fact that Scotland voted to remain in the UK, and the Tories were voted into power? You are struggling, but there is really nothing difficult about this. The vote to remain in the UK was one vote, held 6 years ago. Since then a lot has happened, including us being dragged out the EU against our will. Also since then there have been numerous votes. All them providing an overwhelming victory for parties backing a second referendum in the event of us leaving the EU. I get it. The small band of Scots Tories do not want to appear as anti democrats, so they fudge the issue. Butwe are talking about Scotland. Not the UK. The Tories have no mandate in Scotland. They are a minority party with minority opinion. They and those that back them are denying democracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 if you were to ask most people in Europe, the world or anywhere you like whether the UK has materially changed since 2014 I think you'd get a fairly unanimous response...plus some laughter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Can any unionist please explain what they would accept to as a mandate for Indyref 2 please? Genuine question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, AB de Villiers said: I don’t think there is such a thing, to be honest. However, I think Sturgeon will have to prove that a majority of Scots want independence. 65 out of the last 68 opinion polls suggest otherwise, and I’d say a consistent showing of independence favoured polls over the space of at least a year would be a start. with respect that wasn't my question. I'm asking you what is a mandate. Not whether there is one now. Are you suggesting a mandate is created by polling companies rather than an election? Has that ever happened before for anything? Should there be a weekly poll? Do we all get to be one of the 1000 respondees every now and again? I know that sounds laughable but just want to be sure what your point actually is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said: Can any unionist please explain what they would accept to as a mandate for Indyref 2 please? Genuine question. Like last time the only way they'll agree to a referendum is when they're absolutely confident of a no vote. Nothing else will matter. The SNP/Greens/Whoever could get a massive majority at the next Scottish parliament election and they would still find another way to say now is not the time, no matter how hypocritical it looks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 50 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said: The UK. What democratic vote has been denied, please tell me? The fact that Scotland voted to remain in the UK, and the Tories were voted into power? That’s like saying “what mandate to Celtic have to play at Celtic Park?”, ehhh, maybe the fact that it’s part of Celtic FC? That might be the worst ever analogy ever to be posted on P&B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said: Can any unionist please explain what they would accept to as a mandate for Indyref 2 please? Genuine question. A generation after IndyRef1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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