Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Malky's point about "Frivolous GP appointments" is made up shite. Most GP practices now operate a sort of Triage phone system which would filter out these hordes of folk trying to see a GP to get a free packet Paracetamol. Good to see Cyclizine added to the long list of folk he's been utterly owned by and had to run off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: Malky's point about "Frivolous GP appointments" is made up shite. Most GP practices now operate a sort of Triage phone system which would filter out these hordes of folk trying to see a GP to get a free packet Paracetamol. Good to see Cyclizine added to the long list of folk he's been utterly owned by and had to run off. I haven't ran off anywhere. If it were to be a constructive conversation I'd be happy to engage and to listen. But whilst he has accused me of being entrenched, he's taken the entrenched view that members of the public know f**k all. One thing I do know is that the reason we haven't re-introduced prescription fees isn't about any financial viability about doing so - it's about the electability of the party that would admit they fucked up scrapping the prescription charges for the middle and upper classes in the first place. Edited January 28, 2020 by Malky3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, Malky3 said: I haven't ran off anywhere. If it were to be a constructive conversation I'd be happy to engage and to listen. But whilst he has accused me of being entrenched, he's taken the entrenched view that members of the public know f**k all. One thing I do know is that the reason we haven't re-introduced prescription fees isn't about any financial viability about doing so - it's about the electability of the party that would admit they fucked up scrapping the prescription charges for the middle and upper classes in the first place. Well no, @Cyclizine simply gave a comprehensive set of reasons as to why prescription charges (amongst your other risible suggestions) would be unworkable. It's no one else's fault you have got the stones or the intellect to properly debate him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Malky3 said: I haven't ran off anywhere. If it were to be a constructive conversation I'd be happy to engage and to listen. But whilst he has accused me of being entrenched, he's taken the entrenched view that members of the public know f**k all. One thing I do know is that the reason we haven't re-introduced prescription fees isn't about any financial viability about doing so - it's about the electability of the party that would admit they fucked up scrapping the prescription charges for the middle and upper classes in the first place. I'd be delighted to have a constructive conversation Malky, I invite it. I do not see where I have accused you of being entrenched though and I think your accusation about me is offensive. You have not answered any of my perfectly reasonable questions: I have countered the points you have raised, feel free to rebut them. I will counter your point again about prescriptions: the overall benefit of free prescriptions is in reducing the risk of serious illness. The middle and upper classes made up a tiny proportion of the prescription numbers. As I said, over 90% of prescriptions were issued free anyway. There were (and still are in England) odd exclusions, where you get free prescriptions if you're e.g. diabetic, but not if you're asthmatic or had a heart attack. I'd also point out that free prescriptions are available to all in all of the UK nations except England. Only one of these countries is run by the SNP. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Aw, sorry! My mistake. I thought you said you wanted a constructive discussion. Instead I raise points and you take on the role of expert and write them off as ridiculous. I don't think there is much point in engaging any further to be honest with you. He did address your points constructively.And by doing so, completely owned you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Cyclizine said: free prescriptions are available to all in all of the UK nations except England. None of the countries of the UK have free prescriptions. Edit to clarify: You have to be a particular type of stupid to think that Scotland has free prescriptions. It doesn't. It just means that someone else is paying for them. Edited January 28, 2020 by The_Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: Well no, @Cyclizine simply gave a comprehensive set of reasons as to why prescription charges (amongst your other risible suggestions) would be unworkable. It's no one else's fault you have got the stones or the intellect to properly debate him. In 2006-7 prescription charges and PPC's raised £46.9 million. Introducing a zero rate cost the Scottish Government £57 million per annum back in 2006-7. Not my figures but that of the Scottish Government in an SPIC Briefing at the time that is readily available on the internet. In the same article those experts who rolled out the evidence to be considered said that "frivolous use of the prescribing system would cost an estimated £15m per annum in drug wastage. The response from the Scottish Government was that they believed that the "gatekeepers" were those prescribing the medicines and they expected GP's to limit wastage through improved prescribing practices - which would presumably involve more time being spent on appointments and on repeat prescriptions. Back then the total drugs outlay for the NHS in Scotland was £917.14m. By 2018 the figure stood at £1.3Bn - a 25% increase in 10 years! That's £247.79 per person in Scotland per annum! The most common medicine prescribed is Omeprozole used for acid reflux - a drug that can be bought over the counter at Pharmacies. 3.59m Omeprozole prescriptions were issued by GP's in 2018 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Malky3 said: In 2006-7 prescription charges and PPC's raised £46.9 million. Introducing a zero rate cost the Scottish Government £57 million per annum back in 2006-7. Not my figures but that of the Scottish Government in an SPIC Briefing at the time that is readily available on the internet. In the same article those experts who rolled out the evidence to be considered said that "frivolous use of the prescribing system would cost an estimated £15m per annum in drug wastage. The response from the Scottish Government was that they believed that the "gatekeepers" were those prescribing the medicines and they expected GP's to limit wastage through improved prescribing practices - which would presumably involve more time being spent on appointments and on repeat prescriptions. Back then the total drugs outlay for the NHS in Scotland was £917.14m. By 2018 the figure stood at £1.3Bn - a 25% increase in 10 years! That's £247.79 per person in Scotland per annum! The most common medicine prescribed is Omeprozole used for acid reflux - a drug that can be bought over the counter at Pharmacies. 3.59m Omeprozole prescriptions were issued by GP's in 2018 Given your blatant lies earlier today over election figures, I'm not even going to waste my time checking your nonsense. Surprising, yet not surprising that you're avoiding @Cyclizine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Someone else? Is it only benefit recipients who need prescriptions ? None of the countries of the UK have free prescriptions. Edit to clarify: You have to be a particular type of stupid to think that Scotland has free prescriptions. It doesn't. It just means that someone else is paying for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I can assure you malky, after reading up on it, omeprazol is not a drug I would chose to take. Not for acid reflex btw 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jakedee said: Someone else? Is it only benefit recipients who need prescriptions ? No. It is the nonsense of 'free prescriptions'. There is no such thing. Just like there's no such thing as free healthcare. Edited January 28, 2020 by The_Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 So you agree then, that " someone else" paying for them is incorrect.Thanks. No. It is the nonsense of 'free prescriptions'. There is no such thing. Just like there's no such thing as free healthcare. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jakedee said: I can assure you malky, after reading up on it, omeprazol is not a drug I would chose to take. Not for acid reflex btw Maybe so but it is the most widely prescribed drug in the Scottish NHS. It's available in pharmacies over the counter at a cost of around 58p per pill. BTW if you want to know the other most frequently prescribed pills in Scotland they are Quote simvastatin, aspirin, co-codamol, paracetamol, levothyroxine sodium, salbutamol, bendroflumethiazide, amlodipine and emollients. Those who claim there is no "frivolous" use of the NHS is really kidding themselves on. Edited January 28, 2020 by Malky3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, jakedee said: So you agree then, that " someone else" paying for them is incorrect. Eh? Someone else is always paying for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Ooft. Kincardine desperately vying with Malky for attention here. Could go either way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 So, for my omeprazole prescription it would cost me in excess of £15 per month, if I bought it over the counter. If of course the strength is the same. It is used to counteract the effects of another(far more expensive, I am led to believe)medication I take. Not a choice I am wholly happy with, but the alternatives are worse.It is not,as you insinuated earlier, a cheap way of replacing rennies. Those who claim there is no "frivolous" use of the NHS is really kidding themselves on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Malky3 said: In 2006-7 prescription charges and PPC's raised £46.9 million. Introducing a zero rate cost the Scottish Government £57 million per annum back in 2006-7. Not my figures but that of the Scottish Government in an SPIC Briefing at the time that is readily available on the internet. In the same article those experts who rolled out the evidence to be considered said that "frivolous use of the prescribing system would cost an estimated £15m per annum in drug wastage. The response from the Scottish Government was that they believed that the "gatekeepers" were those prescribing the medicines and they expected GP's to limit wastage through improved prescribing practices - which would presumably involve more time being spent on appointments and on repeat prescriptions. Back then the total drugs outlay for the NHS in Scotland was £917.14m. By 2018 the figure stood at £1.3Bn - a 25% increase in 10 years! That's £247.79 per person in Scotland per annum! The most common medicine prescribed is Omeprozole used for acid reflux - a drug that can be bought over the counter at Pharmacies. 3.59m Omeprozole prescriptions were issued by GP's in 2018 Firstly, I will point out that your numbers are primary care prescription costs, not total drug costs, which would include hospital drugs (a significantly higher number). Of course there was going to be an increased cost in removing prescription charges. As I said, one of the benefits in free* prescriptions is in the reduced cost from treating the complications of long-term conditions. Pay something now to avoid a more expensive problem in the future. This only works on a population level, which is why this is universal. I am not surprised that the figure has increased from ~£900 million in 06/07 to ~£1.3 billion in 17/18. A quick go on the BoE inflation calculator suggests that's pretty much in line with ten years of inflation. In that time as well, we have seen a shift from hospital (which has always been free*) to community prescribing. Current medical guidelines encourage the health risk profiling of patients and the prescription of preventative medications, as I've previously described. I'd say £250 per person per annum is a bargain, given the cost of some of the new immuno-modulating drugs... How much do you think this would be in the private sector? I'll point out that the annual GP budget is £150 per person per annum. All those number sound bg, but in the context of 5,000,000 people, they're not really. "Omeprozole" [sic] is a poor example to use here. Omeprazole and its wee sisters is a drug which has huge benefits to patients in terms of reducing symptoms and reducing risk of oesophageal and stomach cancers and stomach ulcers. A check on Boots' website shows they're charging £10 for a week's supply. I can assure you the NHS pays nowhere near that price, it is pennies per capsule. Are you going to get back to me on the other points I raised is my previous posts, by the way? There's a few questions I asked that you implied you knew the answers to... I'd be really keen to hear them! *for the benefit of @The_Kincardine, by free I mean without a prescription charge at the point of dispensing. He's such a pedantic wee scamp... 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 [emoji849] Eh? Someone else is always paying for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Kincardine outside boots in a sandwich board screaming at a mother and her sick child about potholes and weekly bin collections. 9 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: Ooft. Kincardine desperately vying with Malky for attention here. Doesn't take much to get the pair of you going. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Cyclizine said: *for the benefit of @The_Kincardine, by free I mean without a prescription charge at the point of dispensing. He's such a pedantic wee scamp... So when you said 'free' you didn't mean 'free'. Thanks for confirming. There's nothing pedantic here. Edited January 28, 2020 by The_Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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