When will indyref2 happen?

[HoBNob]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

? In essence those who voted SNP are complicit in Boris Johnson winning the General Election. 

 

Really, so if all the SNP seats were Labour would that have stopped Boris? 

[SandyCromarty]

3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Gutted that I couldn't make it up there for this event.

Catriona Shearer must have devoted all of 2 sentences to this in her 6.30pm Scottish News bulletin.

Pathetic.

 

 

That's normal for the media.

[NotThePars]

Imagine even entertaining the idea of the SNP declaring UDI. Would love to see how the EU would react to tanks parking up at Holyrood and George Square tbf.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Imagine even entertaining the idea of the SNP declaring UDI. Would love to see how the EU would react to tanks parking up at Holyrood and George Square tbf.

You mean like Plaza de Cataluna? A restrained silence then.

[git-intae-thum]

18 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Imagine even entertaining the idea of the SNP declaring UDI. Would love to see how the EU would react to tanks parking up at Holyrood and George Square tbf.

Clearly we are  not at that stage, but when a  consistent majority in Scotland are for independence, and if Westminster still refuses to engage......if not UDI, then what?......serious question?

[NotThePars]

6 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Clearly we are  not at that stage, but when a  consistent majority in Scotland are for independence, and if Westminster still refuses to engage......if not UDI, then what?......serious question?

 

That's a question you should be asking the SNP given they're committed to seeking permission from Westminster or the courts to hold another referendum.

[git-intae-thum]

3 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

That's a question you should be asking the SNP given they're committed to seeking permission from Westminster or the courts to hold another referendum.

and if that permission is not forthcoming?

If the current impass continues and support for independence continues to rise and is consistently a majority, this may indeed all have to end with some form of UDI. After all, that is how the vast majority of countries have become independent.

I think it hasty therefore to be dismissive of it.

One would think the current independence leadership are likely to have been wargaming a very possible future scenario.

 

 

 

 

[NotThePars]

44 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

and if that permission is not forthcoming?

If the current impass continues and support for independence continues to rise and is consistently a majority, this may indeed all have to end with some form of UDI. After all, that is how the vast majority of countries have become independent.

I think it hasty therefore to be dismissive of it.

One would think the current independence leadership are likely to have been wargaming a very possible future scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not giving my opinion on UDI I'm just saying I don't think the SNP have any interest in doing it. They're not remotely radical and have given every indication that they want to do this as legally and down the middle as possible.

 

I could be wrong and we could see Sturgeon, Swinney, Cherry, Yousaf and others sentenced to a combined century in prison but I highly doubt it. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by NotThePars

[lichtgilphead]

10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The EU had no legal right to stop the UK having a referendum and then leaving.

The two situations are completely different.

Please explain exactly why Westminster/the UK have a legal right to stop Scotland having a referendum & leaving & why the situations are completely different.

Edited January 26, 2020 by lichtgilphead

[Malky3]

2 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Really, so if all the SNP seats were Labour would that have stopped Boris? 

The day after the election Blackford triumphantly announced to the press that the SNP would stop Boris and stop Brexit. He pledged the SNP would be the real opposition to the Conservative Party. Then a week later they promised they would get Indy Ref 2. They've failed on every single count just as they've failed Scotland at Holyrood where they've damaged the Scottish Education system, damaged the Scottish Police Force, damaged the Scottish Ambulance Service, damaged transport to the Scottish islands, and damaged the Scottish NHS with their mismanagement of their two major hospital projects, and Nicola Sturgeons decision when she was health minister to freeze recruitment. And what is more ridiculous is that Scottish workers are being taxed more than any other part of the UK to cover the cost of these SNP f**k ups. 

The SNP and the Scottish Nationalist movement have let down the country they profess to love. They've put their personal political rhetoric and ambitions ahead of the wealth and welfare of the people they claim to be representing. They can't make a single positive economic argument for separation, and they've got a collective deafness when it comes to hearing what the majority of Scots have already told them. WE DON'T WANT SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE AND WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER EXPENSIVE INDEPENDENCE REFERENDUM

 

[lichtgilphead]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Is the right to call Indyref2 a reserved or devolved matter?

No-one knows.

Even AdLib (based in Westminster) has suggested that its a matter for the courts.

Are you suggesting that you know better?

[Malky3]

33 minutes ago, Stinky Bone said:

 

I admit that declaring UDI is drastic, but what options do we have?  Scotland keeps on returning pro Independence parties to westminster and Holyrood and in my opinion that means a majority for at least another Independence referendum.  Bojo and union jack have both ruled this out for years, union jack even stating not in Nicola's lifetime (Interestingly, the Belfast agreement mentions a 7 year space for a border poll).  

I think we have to grow some balls here.  If we truly want our Independence we have to grab it, not wait for westminster to hand it to us because that isn't going to happen.  By all means test the water by holding a consultative referendum first, then if that is favourably for Independence then declare UDI.  

However if the result of a consultative referendum returns a majority for no to Independence, then we should forget the whole idea of Independence for a long time, I can't see there being a better chance for a while.  

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Scottish Nationalists are a danger to Scottish democracy. 

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Making a UDI or having a "consultative" is without doubt just the most stupid thing anyone could suggest, especially given that polls don't even support independence in the first place. The way forward is crystal clear. Get the polls to 60% over a decent period of time, keep returning independence supporting parties and in the meantime should some decency and respect the democratic result from 2014. Yes, things have changed regarding Brexit but you now have to persuade the public that Yes is a better option.

There's a few numpties need to calm down before their brains melt.

The only legally mandated poll that hit over 60% was by Scottish voters wanting to stay in the EU, apart from Gibraltar. No Government has been elected on that margin on the popular vote. And you want consistent polls over that margin over "a decent period of time"? So you want to stay in the UK, fair enough, no need for this pish. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by welshbairn

[lichtgilphead]

2 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

The usual wall of text

It's getting past repetitive and boring.

Half truths and outright lies aren't likely to convince.

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, lichtgilphead said:

It's getting past repetitive and boring.

Half truths and outright lies aren't likely to convince.

.....whilst calls for a unilateral declaration of independence and a call to arms will? 

Your defence of the Scottish Nationalist movement is impressive though. It very much akin to when you question a Scientologist about aliens and the madness of L Ron Hubbard. No matter how ridiculous the situation is the Scottish Nationalist cult circles the wagons and tries to defend the indefensible, even running fundraisers to help Alex Salmond FFS! 

[lichtgilphead]

^^^^

I'm not going to quote Manky, but...

I've never suggested UDI...

Or a call to arms...

Or defended L Ron Hubbard/Scientology...

Or contributed to fundraisers for Eck...

Accordingly, I would ask Manky:

What the f*ck was the point of that post?

Edited January 26, 2020 by lichtgilphead

[HoBNob]

21 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Some nonsense 

 

So a yes or no? 

[Malky3]

7 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

^^^^

I'm not going to quote Manky, but...

I've never suggested UDI...

Or a call to arms...

Or defended L Ron Hubbard/Scientology...

Or contributed to fundraisers for Eck...

Accordingly, I would ask Manky:

What the f*ck was the point of that post?

Its quite clear what I'm referencing. I can't help you if you can't grasp it. 

[Malky3]

I think Boris Johnson has played this perfectly. Every move the SNP make right now makes them look more desperate and more foolish. 

If the Scottish Government, once again, hand over large payments to lawyers to take this to court the SNP will again look frivolous with Scottish taxpayers money. If the SNP decide to run an illegal referendum they'll look foolish and frivolous with Scottish taxpayers money. If the Nationalist movement continues to call for UDIs or terrorist action they'll lose a hell of a lot of support in Scotland and look more and more extremist. And if the SNP carry on bleating about not being granted an indy ref 2 whilst going nowhere the SNP will look increasingly weak, toothless and disingenuous particularly as their failings in Scottish government are highlighted more forcefully. 

And all the while the UK governments refusal to allow a referendum is backed up by the fact Scotland decisively rejected Independence less than 6 years ago, in a vote the SNP said was once in a generation, and the opinion polls show nothing has changed. 

I reckon what we will see is an eventual split in the SNP. I look forward to it. 

[Malky3]

51 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

From discussions overheard yesterday it is probable that the SNP will now seek a second referendum in the courts, bearing in mind that we will still be under EU Jurisdiction until December this year it will most likely  be that initial proceedings will take place in Scottish courts with simultaneously a further appeal to the EU court.

A legal way forward is the only possible course, given that the EU have been vehemently against Brexit and Boris we could have a ruling in our favour.

Fanciful bollocks and to be perfectly frank if that is the next step for the SNP I think the UK Government will be absolutely delighted. 

We leave the EU on Friday. We will be under EU court jurisdiction until the end of the transition period - which currently is the 31st of December 2020. But there is no way at all that the EU would want to take on a case like this one for a former member of the EU, when any outcome either way would clearly have huge political ramifications in Spain and in Catalonia. 

The Withdrawal Agreement also states that - as of the 1st of February 2020 - the EU will 

Quote

ensure a smooth winding-down of current arrangements and providing for an orderly withdrawal (for example, to allow for goods placed on the market before the end of the transition to continue to their destination, for the protection of existing intellectual property rights including geographical indications, the winding down of ongoing police and judicial cooperation in criminal matters and other administrative and judicial procedures, the use of data and information exchanged before the end of the transition period, issues related to Euratom, and other matters).

Quote

A transition period, during which the EU will treat the United Kingdom as if it were a Member State, with the exception of participation in the EU institutions and governance structures. The transition period will help in particular administrations, businesses and citizens to adapt to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom.

The SNP would simply be pissing away more Scottish taxpayers money on a frivolous appeal designed to do nothing more than to appease it's more extremist supporters. 

Well seen you "overheard" it at a zombie rally for eejits. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Malky3