When will indyref2 happen?

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, Ross. said:

Hi Blinky,

What is it with British Nationalists and their constant outbursts of personal abuse towards independence supporters?

Please also provide evidence to back up your claims that 0.01% of no voters would vote yes this time.

Thanks.

Pot and kettle. 

 

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, PB4U said:

The 2014 vote was respected instantly.   Indeed the leader of the Yes camp conceded the referendum before all the votes were counted.    It was the absolute gold standard in respecting the referendum result.   

Then the electorate voted for a second referendum after the material change in circumstances and the unionists cannot respect democracy.  

Why is it no voters cannot respect democracy?   

No they didn't. They voted for the SNP who were distancing themselves from a second Independence Referendum. Since then the SNP have reverted to type and gone back to minority votes. 

[welshbairn]

OK, own up.

Protestors thrown out of Scottish Parliament after accusing SNP members of supporting IRA

[Malky3]

I've been out having a nice wee family dinner. I come back home expecting to see some solid Nationalist response to my earlier post detailing how an Independent Scotland would be great for the Scottish economy. I thought at the very least there would be some sort of challenge to my point about an Independent Scotland being dictated to by a bigger parliament and on monetary policies by the Bank of England. I thought maybe there would be some link to an obscure IMF report that I might have missed that suggests an Independent Scotland would be able to boost growth way beyond their positive predictions for the UK. Yet having had a look through 4 pages of posts all I see is nationalist posting abuse at Blinky. 

I was right wasn't I? There is no positive case for Scottish Independence. Poor Granny Danger is going to be very depressed. 

[Malky3]

2 minutes ago, PB4U said:

No they did.   I, and hundreds and thousands voted SNP for a 2nd referendum as was promised on the manifesto.    

You typing your stock level of pish doesn't change reality.     

What we need is people to act like yes voters are respect the democratic process.      

Why don't you respect democracy Manky?   

Which manifesto? It certainly wasn't the 2015 one. 

This was what the 2015 SNP manifesto said about Independence

Nicola Sturgeon told supporters at the manifesto launch that the SNP would always support independence. But she said this election was "not about independence". The pledges included:

• Using SNP votes at Westminster to ensure the promises made during the referendum are delivered
• Demand that the proposals of the Smith Commission on more powers for Scotland are delivered quickly and in full
• Oppose any effort to undermine devolution
• Seek agreement that the Scottish Parliament should move to "full financial responsibility"
• Prioritise early devolution of powers over employment policy, including the minimum wage, welfare, business taxes, national insurance and equality policy

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, Blinky said:

 

No. I did not say we need a referendum to hold another referendum.

The difference between the Brexit one and this one is that the Brexit referendum was an actual referendum. If 50.1% of people voted Yes in indyref2, I would respect that. However, to justify HOLDING indyref2, you’d have to be polling at around 60% otherwise it would just be a waste of time for all involved.

There is no ‘democratic will’ for indyref2, please clearly explain how there is? Scotland democratically voted No in 2014, and haven’t democratically changed that stance ever since. Voting the SNP into power doesn’t = a mandate for indyref2.

 

Even a recent MORI poll showed the majority of Scots don't want an Independence Referendum - as I posted last night

[lichtgilphead]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Well you're not. I was including DKs. You are including all those who didn't vote.

Sorry but I'm not interested in playing this game.

I fucking hate it when both sides do this.

No. You're excluding DK's and "Wouldn't votes" They are lumped together in the poll.

[Malky3]

24 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

There's two issues.

1) The power to hold referenda like Indyref2 should be in Scotland's hands now.

2) Actually holding the referenda should not be attempted until Brexit has been sorted and calmed down a bit, until enough time has passed (IMO 10-15 years as a minimum) for No voters to feel their voice was heard and respected from 2014,  until a firm 60% or more of people polled show a desire to hold it and finally until a firm 60% of people polled express a desire to support the government's desired outcome.

That's where I stand at the moment and it's highly unlikely I'll consider voting Yes until I see all of that second item happening.

The problem with 1) is that the SNP couldn't be trusted with the power. They'd spend £11m of taxpayers money every 6 months holding Independence referenda in the hope that we might get bored voting no. 

I agree with 2 though. There certainly should be a number of years that could justify being classed as a generation before there is any prospect of another Independence Referendum. Scottish business needs political stability - particularly as once the UK leaves the EU it will have some semblance of political stability and it will be attracting inward investment particularly from the US. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Please at least be consistent with your trolling.  

Why are no voters democracy deniers?   

Are you one of the fools that swallows the "once in a generation" line?   

Lifetime

[Malky3]

5 minutes ago, PB4U said:

Scotland’s future

• We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.

Oh right. So you are prepared to selectively quote from the White Paper. 

Did you read page 1 where it says it is a once in a generation vote? What about the oil revenue figures. 

In 2015 Nicola Sturgeon said their manifesto wasn't about Independence. That's the only election where the SNP won the majority of Scottish votes. 

Edited to add - just realised this IS NOT in the Scotland's Future document but was instead written in December 2019! Fucking lying Nationalists. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Malky3

[Malky3]

2 minutes ago, PB4U said:

What's the significance of a generation?   

We all know the 2014 vote was "once in a generation" vote since it was a generation since we voted on the constitution.   Indeed it was a "once in a lifetime" vote for many myself.   

 

Fair enough - so we should wait till you die before we repeat the excersize. I'm fine with that. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Oh right. So you are prepared to selectively quote from the White Paper. 
Did you read page 1 where it says it is a once in a generation vote? What about the oil revenue figures. 
In 2015 Nicola Sturgeon said their manifesto wasn't about Independence. That's the only election where the SNP won the majority of Scottish votes. 

2016 SE was clearly campaigned on an independence mantra with independence parties getting over 50% of vote.
Genuinely unaware that first page of white paper says 'once in a generation'?

Of course let's not forget the better together pledge that Scotland would guarantee their future in the EU with a no vote [emoji849]

[John Lambies Doos]

 

 

 

 

 

The 2008 UEFA league final for Rangers was a "once in a generation, perhaps two generations opportunity"   For some it was "once in a lifetime",  doesn't mean the football club cannot enter the event again.   

 

 

Well, that one did turn out to be true.

#Died

 

 

 

 

 

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:

2016 SE was clearly campaigned on an independence mantra with independence parties getting over 50% of vote.
Genuinely unaware that first page of white paper says 'once in a generation'?

Of course let's not forget the better together pledge that Scotland would guarantee their future in the EU with a no vote

You've taken that out of context. Cameron was responding to Salmonds claims that Scotland would be granted membership of the EU, despite the fact that Spain had said repeatedly that it would veto Scotlands attempts to join. 

Had Scotland voted Yes in 2014 our place in the EU wouldn't have been anything like assured. 

[Malky3]

3 minutes ago, PB4U said:

A holiday in Disneyland is a once in a lifetime opportunity.    Doesn't mean you cannot return if circumstances change.   

The 2008 UEFA league final for Rangers was a "once in a generation, perhaps two generations opportunity"   For some it was "once in a lifetime",  doesn't mean the football club cannot enter the event again.   

It's fairly basic stuff.  

f**k me you must be doing really poorly financially if you think a trip to Disneyland is a one in a lifetime thing! 

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, Blinky said:

The abuse myself and @Malky3 have recieved over this issue is quite revolting. Who knew the Nats were so aggressive towards people who disagree with them, and actually respect democracy.

Still not seen a single post outlining what the economic benefits of Scottish Independence would be either. 

They really don't have anything decent to argue with at all. 

[Malky3]

9 minutes ago, PB4U said:

I wasn't quoting from the white paper you complete moron.  

It was indeed once in a generation vote.   The first time we voted in a generation.  Simple stuff.  

The SNP didn't win a majority of Scottish votes in 2015.     

Another 0/3 score from the forum's pet toy.     Can you get my slippers princess?   

"Scotlands Future" was the name of the White Paper. 

You posted in typical Nationalist format designed to misinform and to deceive. 

[John Lambies Doos]

You've taken that out of context. Cameron was responding to Salmonds claims that Scotland would be granted membership of the EU, despite the fact that Spain had said repeatedly that it would veto Scotlands attempts to join. 
Had Scotland voted Yes in 2014 our place in the EU wouldn't have been anything like assured. 

Well it would possibly be a hell of a lot securer than it is now

[lichtgilphead]

1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Genuinely unaware that first page of white paper says 'once in a generation'?

That's just another misrepresentation from Manky.  

The phrase appears on the third page of the pdf copy 

Linky

It's in the preamble to the contents list 

This page isn't part of the introduction, it isn't part of the summary and it isn't part of the White Paper itself. 

But yes, it does appear in close proximity to the text of the White Paper. That much is true.

As always, look for the real truth behind Malky's shite.

 

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

A holiday in Disneyland is a once in a lifetime opportunity.    Doesn't mean you cannot return if circumstances change.   

The 2008 UEFA league final for Rangers was a "once in a generation, perhaps two generations opportunity"   For some it was "once in a lifetime",  doesn't mean the football club cannot enter the event again.   

It's fairly basic stuff.  

Well actually, Rangers went out of business so that particular football club cannot.