When will indyref2 happen?

[Malky3]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18116260.staying-union-cost-scotland-3-3-billion-year/

Wow! Just Wow! 

The National - the SNPs main muck spreading vehicle put oht this nonsense today. 

So to surmise the SNP are currently spending £12.6Bn more than it raises in revenue. If we were Independent they would borrow more and spend more increasing the size of Scotlands fiscal deficit which it would deal with by following long standing Conservative "austerity" practices of increasing spending year on year but at a rate lower than the growth in GDP. Of course despite the SNP calling this "austerity" for the last decade the National claims that for them to do this is not austerity. 

What needs to be asked though is what evidence the SNP have that growth would accelerate in an Independent Scotland when it hasn't anywhere else in the world?And why would it happen at a time of prolonged government instability - as a divorce from the UK would obviously be - where Scotland hands control of its fiscal levers to the Bank of England and to meet EU rules they'd have to put in place a hard border between Scotland and the ports Scotland uses for the majority of its exports?

Jim McColl might accuse the SNP of using Secondary school economics but its much worse than that. This is fiscally illiterate. 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Malky3

[Bairnardo]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18116260.staying-union-cost-scotland-3-3-billion-year/
Wow! Just Wow! 
The National - the SNPs main muck spreading vehicle put oht this nonsense today. 
So to surmise the SNP are currently spending £12.6Bn more than it raises in revenue. If we were Independent they would borrow more and spend more increasing the size of Scotlands fiscal deficit which it would deal with by following long standing Conservative "austerity" practices of increasing spending year on year but at a rate lower than the growth in GDP. Of course despite the SNP calling this "austerity" for the last decade the National claims that for them to do this is not austerity. 
What needs to be asked though is what evidence the SNP have that growth would accelerate in an Independent Scotland when it hasn't anywhere else in the world?And why would it happen at a time of prolonged government instability - as a divorce from the UK would obviously be - where Scotland hands control of its fiscal levers to the Bank of England and to meet EU rules they'd have to put in place a hard border between Scotland and the ports Scotland uses for the majority of its exports?
Jim McColl might accuse the SNP of using Secondary school economics but its much worse than that. This is fiscally illiterate. 
 
 

Is it mandatory that the SNP govern an independent Scotland?

Simple yes or no shall suffice.

[git-intae-thum]

Question

Scotland and Norway both started extracting oil at roughly the same time.

Indeed more oil has been produced from the Scottish sector.

Norway is now the 2nd richest country in the world. Scotland is one of the poorest in Western Europe.

Why?

[git-intae-thum]

25 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Very good summary here. It mostly boils down to privatisation Vs state control and dumb luck in the timing of peak production

https://resourcegovernance.org/blog/did-uk-miss-out-£400-billion-worth-oil-revenue

Indeed....this may explain why the UK public sector has not received anything like the finance from oil that Norway's has.

In fact the Norwegian public sector has received between 25 to 30 times the amount from oil that Scotland's public purse has.

You are correct that Norway structured it's fiscal approach to the industry in a very different manner to the UK. The UK ensured that big business and individual billionaires made a killing and that the shareholder class benefitted a bit. In Norway the whole country were winners and will be for generations.

The point being for the daft wee Malky3 types of this world is that Norway is rich because Norway could choose a structure that suited its own people.

Scotland is poor.

Still many decades of extraction left in Scottish waters btw. We still have a chance.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Gin goes in, hatred comes out. Genuinely, knock the drinking on the head for a bit. It doesn't seem to be healthy for you. 

Rangers dying and all the humiliations since absolutely broke him. He went from being a fairly reasonable poster (for a ***) to a bigoted and shambling alcoholic mess. He's now little more than a marginally more literate version of McSpreader.

THAT'S delicious [emoji23]

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, Malky3 said:

So to surmise the SNP are currently spending £12.6Bn more than it raises in revenue.

Citation needed.

[AUFC90]

Rangers dying and all the humiliations since absolutely broke him. He went from being a fairly reasonable poster (for a ***) to a bigoted and shambling alcoholic mess. He's now little more than a marginally more literate version of McSpreader.

THAT'S delicious [emoji23]

Scotland may or may not become independent but whatever happens Rangers died. That's something to celebrate.

[BawWatchin]

3 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

Question

Scotland and Norway both started extracting oil at roughly the same time.

Indeed more oil has been produced from the Scottish sector.

Norway is now the 2nd richest country in the world. Scotland is one of the poorest in Western Europe.

Why?

"It's no Scottish oil, it's British oil" - Malkey and his group of absolute fannies on here

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

And now another familiar helpful voice.
 

Even The Times' grasp of the English language seems to have disappeared. Is it just me? Reading that made me shudder.

[Malky3]

6 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

Citation needed.

The GERs Report

[Guest Jedi]

Ah, a hard border between Scotland and England and a £12.6 billion black hole, and....think that's about it. Oh no forgot no country which has become Independent has successfully grown its economy.

There won't be a hard border between N.Ireland and the Republic as the EU will never allow it, so why would there be one between Scotland and England.

The famous £12.6 billion is a prediction on where the finances of an Independent Scotland 'might' be at the start of Independence. Not, a set in stone that's where they are, but a 'might' be. There is also an assumption that any Scottish govt has to go austerity mad to cut that deficit, rather than, as the Growth Commission report proposes aim to 'grow' our way to healthier finances, based on strong export sectors of food and drink,(turnover £12 billion) oil, creative industries sector (turnover £4.8 billion), ICT sector (£3.8 billion turnover) manufacturing sector (exports of around £14 billion), and a strong tourist sector.  25% of Europe’s off-shore wind and tidal resource and also 10% of Europe’s wave resource. Inward investment would grow in a country which is part of the EU, and has access to the world's largest single market.

Independence doesn't start making the same choices which Scotland is faced with, within the UK. Its cuts the cloth to suit the circumstances of being an outward looking, open for business with Europe nation, whose spending priorities are designed to fit our own market.

Of course there would be bumps in the road, and some years would be better than others, but faced with another 10 years of Tory austerity a cut of 7% in the UK economy, and by the govts own estimates each household being on average £2,500 per year worse off with Brexit..

[Malky3]

2 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

And now another familiar helpful voice.
 

I've not got much time for this guy - after all he was the Justice Minister who let the only man convicted of the Lockerbie Bombing walk free in one of the most shameful pieces of Scottish justice history! 

However he is right in this article. 

The leaders of the SNP still have no answers to the questions that destroyed their case in 2014. They still have no idea what currency they would use. They still talk about the need to control their own economic levers by gaining Independence and handing control of the levers to the Bank of England and Westminster. They talk about independence but they want to hand all law making powers to the EU. They want a greater say in parliament, but they'll leave Westminster where Scotland has just under one tenth of the seats to join the EU where Scotland would have 6 seats out of 736 - less than 1%! They claim they would be able to borrow more money, but EU rules would dictate what proportion of GDP they could borrow year on year. They claim we'll have free trade with the UK - our biggest market - but that we'll be a member of the EU, like Ireland - who won't have a free trade deal unless the EU and the UK can agree a free trade deal agreement. They acknowledged the problem an Independent Scotland would have with an aging population,. and they argue they need to control Scottish Immigration to bring in enough foreign workers to continue to pay state pension to our pensioners, yet when the UK opened the doors wide to EU immigrants without any screening they chose not to settle in Scotland. And now the SNP attempts to prove that an Independent Scotland would be able to spend more on public services than we currently do is proven to rely heavily on a fictitious and frankly unbelievable accelerated growth in GDP that just as incredible as their predictions for massive oil revenues in 2014 as the market crashed completely! 

At the same time the SNP have a track record that shows that they cannot be trusted to deliver public projects safely and on time - Edinburgh Kids Hospital, and the QEUH in Glasgow - or on budget - the CalMac ferries at the now expensively nationalised Fergusons Shipyard and the Raith Interchange Project. Even their big grandstand project - the Queensferry Crossing - had to close immediately after the Queen opened it because it was unsafe, safety works still haven't been completed on the bridge. There's also an open admission that the SNP have a record of failure in both health - they have missed almost all of their own targets - and in education where the once well respected Scottish Education System has become a bit of a national joke, with Scotland plummeting down the international league tables. 

The SNP need to forget Indy Ref 2 - at least until they can prove beyond all doubt that Scottish Independence would make us all wealthier. Right now they are doing the opposite - the Tartan Tax has made Scotland the most expensive place in the UK to work making Scotland a less attractive place for inward investment than anywhere else in the UK. 

[Malky3]

21 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Ah, a hard border between Scotland and England and a £12.6 billion black hole, and....think that's about it. Oh no forgot no country which has become Independent has successfully grown its economy.

There won't be a hard border between N.Ireland and the Republic as the EU will never allow it, so why would there be one between Scotland and England.

The famous £12.6 billion is a prediction on where the finances of an Independent Scotland 'might' be at the start of Independence. Not, a set in stone that's where they are, but a 'might' be. There is also an assumption that any Scottish govt has to go austerity mad to cut that deficit, rather than, as the Growth Commission report proposes aim to 'grow' our way to healthier finances, based on strong export sectors of food and drink,(turnover £12 billion) oil, creative industries sector (turnover £4.8 billion), ICT sector (£3.8 billion turnover) manufacturing sector (exports of around £14 billion), and a strong tourist sector.  25% of Europe’s off-shore wind and tidal resource and also 10% of Europe’s wave resource. Inward investment would grow in a country which is part of the EU, and has access to the world's largest single market.

Independence doesn't start making the same choices which Scotland is faced with, within the UK. Its cuts the cloth to suit the circumstances of being an outward looking, open for business with Europe nation, whose spending priorities are designed to fit our own market.

Of course there would be bumps in the road, and some years would be better than others, but faced with another 10 years of Tory austerity a cut of 7% in the UK economy, and by the govts own estimates each household being on average £2,500 per year worse off with Brexit..

Fucking hell! Where have you been burying your head for the last three years. 

The whole fucking EU withdrawal agreement issue was around the Irish fucking backstop! The UK doesn't want any border or trade restrictions between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Neither does the Republic of Ireland infact their Taoiseach said a hard border would be an economic disaster for the Republic of Ireland. And here you claim the EU would never allow a hard border. If that was the case why the f**k is it even being discussed? Take your head out of your arse and try to follow what is going on. I know it probably means you'll need to stop injecting whatever pish it is that you've addled your brain with but try it. 

Fucking idiot! 

Oh and the £12.6Bn figure isn't a prediction for the future. It's the fucking reality of the Scottish Economy TODAY! 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Malky3

[Bairnardo]

Good lord Malky is pathetic.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

37 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

The GERs Report

I don't need to read the GERS report to know that what you said is literally not there. So, citation needed. Page number and a link will do. Maybe even a wee quote. Go on. We're all waiting. Be specific.

[Malky3]

11 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

I don't need to read the GERS report to know that what you said is literally not there. So, citation needed. Page number and a link will do. Maybe even a wee quote. Go on. We're all waiting. Be specific.

Page 46

Would you like sauce, or salt and vinegar with that humble pie? 

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Malky3

[Malky3]

11 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Good lord Malky is pathetic.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

5 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Page 46

Would you like sauce, or salt and vinegar with that humble pie? 

 

Excuse me?

How does that^^^

Mean this:

10 hours ago, Malky3 said:

So to surmise the SNP are currently spending £12.6Bn more than it raises in revenue.

[Malky3]

Just now, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

Excuse me?

How does that^^^

Mean this:

Ok - I know you are really stupid so I'll try again. Please read this in the tone of a really bored primary school teacher who has taught this lesson many, many times and gone over it with you to the point where she has written you off. 

The sum is simple. 

First you get all of Scotlands revenue and you add it together to get the total. 

Then you subtract from that all of the expenditure. 

And from that simple sum you get the Net Fiscal Balance, as is shown in the table. 

It's really basic stuff. 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

Just now, Malky3 said:

Ok - I know you are really stupid so I'll try again. Please read this in the tone of a really bored primary school teacher who has taught this lesson many, many times and gone over it with you to the point where she has written you off. 

The sum is simple. 

First you get all of Scotlands revenue and you add it together to get the total. 

Then you subtract from that all of the expenditure. 

And from that simple sum you get the Net Fiscal Balance, as is shown in the table. 

It's really basic stuff. 

If it is that simple you can put a figure on how much the SNP raises in revenue? Again, a wee link. A wee quote. Be specific.