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When will indyref2 happen?


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Indyref2  

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41 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Your post was illiterate fiction gibberish. You don't seem to understand the difference between what the Scottish Government spends and what the UK Government claims to spend on Scotland directly.

Like Council Tax? The Council claims to spend money running services on my behalf. Then it bills me. I have to pay this bill.

You mean like that?

As I've said unless you have an alternative provider that you can prove would do it for less money your argument is completely null and void no matter how you try to muddy the water. 

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6 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Like Council Tax? The Council claims to spend money running services on my behalf. Then it bills me. I have to pay this bill.

You mean like that?

As I've said unless you have an alternative provider that you can prove would do it for less money your argument is completely null and void no matter how you try to muddy the water. 

Difference is, you can inquire into how the council spends your money. You can't however inquire into how Westminster spends your money, which is nearly half of the total tax you pay. (Or would pay if you actually worked)

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2 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Difference is, you can inquire into how the council spends your money. You can't however inquire into how Westminster spends your money, which is nearly half of the total tax you pay. (Or would pay if you actually worked)

Don't talk shite. The UK Government publishes a budget every single year which breaks down it's spending. You can see exactly how your money is being spent. Try getting that info from Glasgow City Council........

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1 minute ago, Malky3 said:

Don't talk shite. The UK Government publishes a budget every single year which breaks down it's spending. You can see exactly how your money is being spent. Try getting that info from Glasgow City Council........

The UK Government pubishes a break down of overall UK spending, but it doesn't include their spending by region. Something the Scottish Government has requested time and time again, only to be knocked back each time. I don't live in Glasgow, I live in Edinburgh and can get a breakdown of Edinburgh Council spending rather easily through a freedom of information request.

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You too are selectively quoting. I dealt with your assertion fully in my post. You are a propagandist. 


For interest if scotland is running at a 12.6bn deficit, why dont the rest of the uk just tell us to f**k off? Why is it in their best interests to keep scotland in thw UK?
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No need for an FOI, it's a legal requirement to publish how a council spends what it collects. Will have been with your bill or on their website

The UK Government pubishes a break down of overall UK spending, but it doesn't include their spending by region. Something the Scottish Government has requested time and time again, only to be knocked back each time. I don't live in Glasgow, I live in Edinburgh and can get a breakdown of Edinburgh Council spending rather easily through a freedom of information request.
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If, in a union of equals, one part gets to scoop the benefits of certain EU rules and another gets dragged out of the EU despite a resounding claim to stay, is it equal? I'd say that if (big if) this goes ahead then the polls showing a slight increase in those wanting independence should rocket. Still, 'lead don't leave' and all the other guff spouted last time around will come back to haunt a No to indy crowd. The worry is what tactics they'll use.

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Just now, The Skelpit Lug said:

If, in a union of equals, one part gets to scoop the benefits of certain EU rules and another gets dragged out of the EU despite a resounding claim to stay, is it equal? I'd say that if (big if) this goes ahead then the polls showing a slight increase in those wanting independence should rocket. Still, 'lead don't leave' and all the other guff spouted last time around will come back to haunt a No to indy crowd. The worry is what tactics they'll use.

Borders! 

Something about the UK internal market and how difficult it'll be to leave the UK. 

Over and over and over.

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7 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

Borders! 

Something about the UK internal market and how difficult it'll be to leave the UK. 

Over and over and over.

That's why a smooth solution to the Irish border would be best for Indy 2, and hopefully a soft Brexit. 

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2 hours ago, Blootoon87 said:
2 hours ago, Aufc said:


For interest if scotland is running at a 12.6bn deficit, why dont the rest of the uk just tell us to f**k off? Why is it in their best interests to keep scotland in thw UK?

That's the crux of the argument and one I've never heard a logical reason for.

f**k me. I know nationalists don't like reading things that don't fit their agenda but if you look two pages back you'll see I've done it already! 

There are 14 regions in the ONS report. 3 are in surplus this year. Scotland get's it's grant through the Barnett Formula and as a result of this we get to share in the success of the South East of England, London and the East of England. If the UK Government decide to start offloading each region that was running at a deficit they'd land up in control of Canary Wharf in the end 

The fact is no unionist politician wants to see the break up of the most successful political union in history. 

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3 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

The UK Government pubishes a break down of overall UK spending, but it doesn't include their spending by region. Something the Scottish Government has requested time and time again, only to be knocked back each time. I don't live in Glasgow, I live in Edinburgh and can get a breakdown of Edinburgh Council spending rather easily through a freedom of information request.

Freedom of Information requests apply to Westminster too. Maybe the SNP don't want to know the answer - after all most Nationalists on here seem scared of the real figures. 

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2 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

Borders! 

Something about the UK internal market and how difficult it'll be to leave the UK. 

Over and over and over.

This, obviously - allied with the inevitable business instability and uncertainty damaging the Scottish Economy for what would be up to 10 years in a row with referendums. 

The majority of Scots don't want Independence, don't want another referendum and aren't happy that the SNP keep agitating for a split. 

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1 hour ago, ancientnoise said:

Reading a comic like the Daily Express is an option open to everyone. 

Digesting it and making that form your opinion is another matter altogether. 

The same could easily be said of The National, Wings, and the echo chambers on Social Media where many Scottish Nationalists get their news on a daily basis. You are correct in your sentiment though. If you only get your news sources from the Tribe that you are in your grasp on the truth and on reality are going to be severely skewed. 

For the record I have never read the Daily Express. I'm happy to engage in debate with Nationalists. I'll even put up with the abuse that is levelled at me in the hope that somewhere in there someone might have a reasoned answer to the questions I see as being important before I would ever consider changing my vote. I have stated my case. I regard myself as an average Scot, from an average working class background, with a fairly typical family. I have done reasonably well in my life. I'm comfortably off. I own a nice house, I buy a new car every three years, and have been able to take my family on some fantastic holidays. My kids have grown up. They went to highly ranked schools yet we thought that across a number of subjects their school failed them. Where it was required we hired tutors and got them through their exams. They are now working in their chosen professional fields and they too appear to be doing well. Our lives in Scotland, as part of the United Kingdom, has been good and I ask what evidence is there that our lives will continue to be good or better in an Independent Scotland.  I ask what evidence Nationalists can give that assures me that the lives of my Grandchildren and Great Grandchildren will be as good or better than the lives we have led. No-one has ever given me an answer! Perhaps you might care to try but if you can't ask yourself why you can't? Is it because the reality is that we are all going to be substantially worse off? 

The GERs Report is not a biased document devised by a newspaper journalist. It's a financial report produced by the Scottish Government. It's compiled by the same statisticians and financial analysts that the Scottish Government use to devise strategy and monetary policy. If the GERs Report is flawed - as Nationalists claim - then it would suggest the Scottish Parliament is not fit for purpose. The £12.6Bn figure has not been plucked out of thin air. It is the actual difference between what the Scottish Government spends, and what we raise as a nation in revenue. These figures have also been approved and confirmed -not by the editor of some newspaper - but by SNP Finance Minister Derek MacKay who said that it was a fair and accurate reflection of the current fiscal position Scotland finds itself in. Yet despite that Nationalists still refuse to believe the figures as laid out before them, repeating ill informed and disingenuous bollocks like "if Scotland is so bad why do the English want to keep us" or the claim that Baw Watchin keeps repeating that somehow Westminster is stealing our money and hiding it from us. 

I get that it's difficult to admit that you backed the wrong horse. That these figures make uncomfortable reading for someone who thinks it would be better to be in a Union with anyone but England. So I ask another question - an opportunity of a way out for a Nationalist that should be easy to do considering that Nationalists have ritually condemned the Union all throughout my lifetime and the Westminster way of running politics. Here you have a blank sheet of paper - a new country where you can build fresh, casting aside the things that you think Westminster does badly and showing how a new country could tackle the issues in a new, more efficient way if only we were free to make our own choices. Perhaps in doing so you could even show £12.6Bn worth of savings. So I ask, in an Independent Scotland which of our current public services would you cut to balance the books? 

 

 

 

Edited by Malky3
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If you read the Wings thread on this board, every nationalist bar one thinks he's a walloper. So expanded out, that means he's probably got the attention of 5-10% of Yes voters, perhaps. 

Skimming the rest of it...where's the 12bn....oh, check.....Derek McKay....yup....12bn....oh hang on, 12.6bn, slightly new patter.....oh fantastic holidays, that's nice......

Edited by carpetmonster
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47 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said:

I won't quote it but I got some Barry Homeowner vibes from Malky's last post.

Very Stuart Dickson-esque. He also used to be up in the small hours typing out reams of pish which barely anyone could be bothered reading either, the sad fat f**k 😂

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On 17/10/2019 at 19:40, Malky3 said:

Freedom of Information requests apply to Westminster too. Maybe the SNP don't want to know the answer - after all most Nationalists on here seem scared of the real figures. 

Freedom of Information "requests" apply to Westminster. Withholding the information "in the national interest" also applies to Westminster.

You see... it's not in the interests of the whole of Britain for Westminster to show Scotland how it squanders Scotlands money on Scotlands behalf.

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