When will indyref2 happen?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Back on topic the answer to the original question is still NEVER

Pipe doon you utter creep [emoji23]

[Suspect Device]

11 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Back on topic the answer to the original question is still NEVER

To quote The Donald (Osmond) that's a long long time.

Surely even you have to agree that you can't rule out another vote forever even if you think the once in a generation timetable should be stuck to. A generation is only 10/12 years in Dundee so 2024 could quite easily be the date of the next one.  Personally I still believe that it should be 2034. My daughter will be able to vote. Not sure if I'll still be around to but she is already in favour of independence.

[Malky3]

6 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Pipe doon you utter creep

Oh dear! 

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, Suspect Device said:

To quote The Donald (Osmond) that's a long long time.

Surely even you have to agree that you can't rule out another vote forever even if you think the once in a generation timetable should be stuck to. A generation is only 10/12 years in Dundee so 2024 could quite easily be the date of the next one.  Personally I still believe that it should be 2034. My daughter will be able to vote. Not sure if I'll still be around to but she is already in favour of independence.

It will never happen. I expect that once we stop obsessing about Brexit attention will turn to the question of Scottish Independence and there will be a growing demand on the SNP to show their figures and there will be  growing focus on groups like All Under One Banner and the financial irregularities that have blighted their existence to date. 

[madwullie]

Your other account been banned or something malky? Just not seen as much of you recently. 

[git-intae-thum]

36 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Your other account been banned or something malky? Just not seen as much of you recently. 

He has just finished counting the marchers.

[hearthammer]

[Gaz FFC]

2 hours ago, Stinky Bone said:

Many unionists would have died off and the sheer amount of votes to remain Independent would be overwhelming, which would result in the 4 year rule being scrapped and unionism disappearing for eternity.

Spunk everywhere

[BILmac1967]

12 hours ago, ancientnoise said:

Using his fingers, all twelve of them.

I see there's a increasing clamour amongst the deranged isolationists down south that the scrounging, whinging, ungrateful Scots should just do one. Like already.

Fits neatly into my prediction that, like everything about our politics, the English will decide the outcome.

They should take back control, properly and without delay by leaving the UK, and hilariously leaving the UKOK guys up here high and dry (I mean the actual and real guys, not twelve-fingers).

 

"They should take back control, properly and without delay by leaving the UK", The problem I have with this is that independence, by it's current proposal is that none of it makes us independent-for example;

1 - The Queen (of England, not even the UK) remains our head of state, no matter how we vote.

2 - Our currency would be based on the bank of England pound.

3 - Our armed forces would be British, in part paid for out of our own budget and would contain many Scots personnel.

As far as I can see, the above makes us England's back garden, I honestly think it gives us a far worse reality than we already have.

 

 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Serious question?
Is there any chance a yes vote would result in actual independence or would we just argue about it for many years after the vote but never actually get it through whilst politicians move heaven and earth to try and block it?

[Guest JTS98]

On 09/10/2019 at 00:47, Stinky Bone said:

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but bojo made an offer to the EU to keep Northern Ireland in the single market, and for the Northern Irish assembly to have a vote every 4 years whether to stay or remain in the single market.

 

Utter madness, surely? What business is going to invest in any territory with that level of economic uncertainty?

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Serious question?
Is there any chance a yes vote would result in actual independence or would we just argue about it for many years after the vote but never actually get it through whilst politicians move heaven and earth to try and block it?

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what would happen.

The UK would block, delay, quibble etc all while their media continue to ramp up the scare stories. Eventually people would just get fed up and the idea would be killed off. It seems pretty certain.

[Bairnardo]

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what would happen.
The UK would block, delay, quibble etc all while their media continue to ramp up the scare stories. Eventually people would just get fed up and the idea would be killed off. It seems pretty certain.

The Brexit case has been caused by the leaving parliament blocking it. As long as Holyrood is controlled by indy leaning parties surely this scenario is unlikely?

[Guest JTS98]

5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

15 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what would happen.
The UK would block, delay, quibble etc all while their media continue to ramp up the scare stories. Eventually people would just get fed up and the idea would be killed off. It seems pretty certain.

The Brexit case has been caused by the leaving parliament blocking it. As long as Holyrood is controlled by indy leaning parties surely this scenario is unlikely?

You'd like to think so, but the UK could and would be as difficult as possible in the negotiations. It's not hard to imagine them trying to shove Scotland against a wall to 'encourage' a re-think.  I'd be more surprised if they didn't.

They'll have huge propaganda help from the media and from pro-union business voices as well as certain foreign governments, no doubt. Maintaining public support for independence in what will probably be a robust and prolonged assault will not be easy.

Scotland maintaining strong links with the EU is absolutely essential for this reason and this should be the government's priority. Not trying to remain while part of the UK, but making it clear we're itching to get back in and doing whatever we can to chum up to them. We'll need them.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JTS98

[Baxter Parp]

"They should take back control, properly and without delay by leaving the UK", The problem I have with this is that independence, by it's current proposal is that none of it makes us independent-for example;

1 - The Queen (of England, not even the UK) remains our head of state, no matter how we vote.

2 - Our currency would be based on the bank of England pound.

3 - Our armed forces would be British, in part paid for out of our own budget and would contain many Scots personnel.

As far as I can see, the above makes us England's back garden, I honestly think it gives us a far worse reality than we already have.

 

 

1/Queen of UK not England.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II

2/The plan is to use sterling then move to our own currency as soon as possible.

3/Bollocks.

 

[Baxter Parp]

Serious question?
Is there any chance a yes vote would result in actual independence or would we just argue about it for many years after the vote but never actually get it through whilst politicians move heaven and earth to try and block it?

The move to independence is laid out in the white paper. Unlike Brexit there is a detailed plan.

[dee_62]

5 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

You'd like to think so, but the UK could and would be as difficult as possible in the negotiations. It's not hard to imagine them trying to shove Scotland against a wall to 'encourage' a re-think.  I'd be more surprised if they didn't.

They'll have huge propaganda help from the media and from pro-union business voices as well as certain foreign governments, no doubt. Maintaining public support for independence in what will probably be a robust and prolonged assault will not be easy.

Scotland maintaining strong links with the EU is absolutely essential for this reason and this should be the government's priority. Not trying to remain while part of the UK, but making it clear we're itching to get back in and doing whatever we can to chum up to them. We'll need them.

Heard an interesting take on any future referendum on Brexit (debate night on BBC Scotland last night) that could probably apply for Indyref 2 (as it did apparently on the GFA vote in NI/Ireland many years ago) and that is that it wouldn't be an advisory referendum.  If the result went for change (eg to Independence) it would become law at midnight that night - effectively Scotland could be Independent the day after the referendum.  After that it would be down to a straight negotiation rather than holding the gun to Scotland's head that UK might not let you go unless.... etc.

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

Heard an interesting take on any future referendum on Brexit (debate night on BBC Scotland last night) that could probably apply for Indyref 2 (as it did apparently on the GFA vote in NI/Ireland many years ago) and that is that it wouldn't be an advisory referendum.  If the result went for change (eg to Independence) it would become law at midnight that night - effectively Scotland could be Independent the day after the referendum.  After that it would be down to a straight negotiation rather than holding the gun to Scotland's head that UK might not let you go unless.... etc.

It's difficult.

There's a balance to be struck. Ideally, the thought of a binding referendum makes sense, but that requires utter clarity going into the vote of exactly what the change being voted on would mean. Otherwise why commit?

Obviously, in any referendum this would make it easy for the conservative (small c) side of the debate to avoid a vote for change by deliberately muddying the waters. This is exactly what the UK government would do. Look at the absolute nonsense they came out with last time. Imagine if the referendum were binding?

However, a non-binding result allows them to play silly buggers after the vote to try to change the outcome.

There's no easy path.

[BILmac1967]

3 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

1/Queen of UK not England.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II

2/The plan is to use sterling then move to our own currency as soon as possible.

3/Bollocks.

 

1- If she's queen of the UK then our head of government would be UK, still not independent Scottish.

2- Didn't Westminster just bail us out of our £1- billion pound deficit (for a country of 7.5 million? people recently. Our own currency would be held up by all this large scale industry and well paid jobs which Scotland is known for (sarcasm)

3- As if we could afford to pay another army to defend us, we can hardly afford our bills as it is.

4- Lets cut ourselves off from our biggest trading partner as we argue to join Europe as an independent nation, 'cos that's really going to improve our economy.

5- I think you get the jist.

[Billy Jean King]

And still you visit the site Wow just wow your a ripper

Yep, they have. I cannot be bothered with any of it anymore.
I visit England frequently and find the atmosphere and the people so much better. They do not have chips on their shoulders and just get on with life in general. 
And the door can hit me all it wants as I cannot wait to leave.
Champ ?