When will indyref2 happen?

[Colkitto]

Doesn't matter how you vote Scotland. Piers making the case for independence..

 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

Thank you. I don't want Scottish Independence at all but if we were to go down that route lower taxes, particularly lower corporation tax, would make a great deal of sense. After all its a tactic that has served Ireland well in recent years. 

One problem with that though is the proposal of keeping an Independent Scotland in the EU. The reason for this is in January 2019 the EU moved towards QMV. A system that will lead to, amongst other things, a unified tax policy across the EU. 

https://euobserver.com/opinion/144023

 

Quote from the article.

'chances of this happening anytime soon are slim'

Please file your Austrian School of Economics shite directly into the bin please.

 

[DAFC.]

Cannae huv yer cake and eat it, Piers lad.

A simple fellow, isn’t he?

[Malky3]

22 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Quote from the article.

'chances of this happening anytime soon are slim'

Please file your Austrian School of Economics shite directly into the bin please.

 

The EU Parliament has a thirst for more power and more control. If nationalists want control of the countries fiscal levers wed need to stay out of the EU and have a new currency from day one. The fact that Nationalists don't grasp that is even more reason to vote No

[Merkie84]

Or it will be up to the Scottish electorate to decide what our relationship with Europe is.

At the moment, people here generally want to be part of the  EU.

If the EU changes for the worst or we don’t fancy it anymore , we can vote in a Scottish leave party.

You know, like every other independent country does with no problems.

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

The EU Parliament has a thirst for more power and more control. If nationalists want control of the countries fiscal levers wed need to stay out of the EU and have a new currency from day one. The fact that Nationalists don't grasp that is even more reason to vote No

Spoken like a true Brexiteer.

An independent Scotland inside the EU will have more power than it does now, chained to the failing union.

[Jambomo]

On 01/09/2019 at 19:23, Malky3 said:

The inability to argue in a manner that would change minds isn't just mine. The whole nationalist movement has a real problem because it has to convert voters like me from Never to Yes, and so far their attempts are risible.

It isn't up to Nationalists to "convert" people. You are a free person who is responsible for making up your own mind with the evidence that is available.

What I would say is that everyone now has a responsibility to look at the UK, look at the parliament and how it is acting, look at no-deal Brexit and its consequences and ask themselves if this is really how they want Scotland to be run. 

The arguments put forward on both sides in 2014 are no longer valid, the political, social and economic climate has completely changed since then. It is now a duty of all voters in Scotland to put aside various loyalties and seriously consider independence as an option, whatever your subsequent decision turns out to be, not even considering it as a possibility does Scotland a massive disservice. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

26 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

It isn't up to Nationalists to "convert" people. You are a free person who is responsible for making up your own mind with the evidence that is available.

What I would say is that everyone now has a responsibility to look at the UK, look at the parliament and how it is acting, look at no-deal Brexit and its consequences and ask themselves if this is really how they want Scotland to be run. 

The arguments put forward on both sides in 2014 are no longer valid, the political, social and economic climate has completely changed since then. It is now a duty of all voters in Scotland to put aside various loyalties and seriously consider independence as an option, whatever your subsequent decision turns out to be, not even considering it as a possibility does Scotland a massive disservice. 

If Malky and his fellow 'Never' voters want to fight the next referendum like it's still 2014 then we should probably just let them tbh.

[Malky3]

51 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

It isn't up to Nationalists to "convert" people. You are a free person who is responsible for making up your own mind with the evidence that is available.

What I would say is that everyone now has a responsibility to look at the UK, look at the parliament and how it is acting, look at no-deal Brexit and its consequences and ask themselves if this is really how they want Scotland to be run. 

The arguments put forward on both sides in 2014 are no longer valid, the political, social and economic climate has completely changed since then. It is now a duty of all voters in Scotland to put aside various loyalties and seriously consider independence as an option, whatever your subsequent decision turns out to be, not even considering it as a possibility does Scotland a massive disservice. 

Nonsense. The arguments of 2014 are completely valid. The Scottish Nationalists still haven't resolved the currency issues or come up with any credible argument for how an Independent Scotland would have to look to make the finances fit. 

We all know what we've got right now. Most Scots lead a very comfortable life with this country as part of the UK and that in part is down to the fact that we are currently tied to the wealth of London, the South East and the East of England. Pissing that away because Boris Johnson is trying to push the democratic will of the UK over a line would be a ridiculous folly. 

[Gaz]

Imagine being such a craven lickspittle that you happily admit to being a "Never" to the question of Scottish Independence.

[Granny Danger]

3 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Imagine being such a craven lickspittle that you happily admit to being a "Never" to the question of Scottish Independence.

There was a poll a wee bit after the Referendum asking when the next one should be.  About 15% (I think) responded “Never”; most of these being in the 65+ age group.

Imagine trying to dictate the future to younger generations even after you were dead!

 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

18 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

There was a poll a wee bit after the Referendum asking when the next one should be.  About 15% (I think) responded “Never”; most of these being in the 65+ age group.

Imagine trying to dictate the future to younger generations even after you were dead!

 

 

Malky is clearly part of an extremist minority on the margins of society.

[Enigma]

Most Scots lead a very comfortable life

 

Most Scots would continue to lead a very comfortable life after independence. That wouldn’t change.

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, Enigma said:

 

Most Scots would continue to lead a very comfortable life after independence. That wouldn’t change.

There's no evidence of that. What we do know is that a new Independence Government would have to bridge a £13Bn per annum fiscal gap. That might take the form of increased taxation which would be catastrophic for Scotland, or it might take the form of cuts to public services. Either choice would affect the financial comfort of a number of Scots. I'd love to see Nationalists being honest about what services they'd cut. They are highly critical of everything Westminster does so that shouldn't be hard, but to date no-one on here has stepped up to do so. 

We've also seen the impact of one bitter divorce on the stability of our parliament and on our economy. Doing further damage to Scotland by going through a second expensive and damaging divorce which might include putting a hard border between us and England, and a hard border between Scottish exporters and the ports they export from, would have to be proven to be worth it. 

What we do know absolutely is that if the SNP had won Scottish Independence in 2014 and followed their White Paper to the letter the Scottish economy would have a deficit of £42Bn by now and climbing and being tied to sterling would have damaged the countries ability to finance that deficit. 

[Dan Steele]

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

1. No it doesn't. Scotland spends £13Bn more than it earns in revenue. That's a fact confirmed by the chief Scottish Government economists and statisticians and by the FInance Secretary Derek MacKay.

2. This too is rubbish. The total  revenues for the UK is pooled and the Barnett Formula decides how much of a Grant the Scottish Government gets. The Fraser and Allander blog went over this in a fair bit of detail. Scotland, through the Barnett Formula gets more money per head of population than almost every other region in the UK. The only one that gets more is Northern Ireland. 

3. Yes they do. This is true. And if you take out the effect of the three regions that were in surplus - London, South East of England and the East of England the deficit was £106Bn this year of which Scotland would have accounted for £13Bn. Fortunately that's not how the UK economy works. Again see the Fraser and Allander Institute blog for a more detailed explanation. 

4. The UK has a national debt. Interest is shared throughout the country. We're all in a political Union, which, as you will see from the Fraser and Allander blog and from the GERs Report that Scotland actually benefits substantially from. 

5. This is just utter made up shite. 

And ofcourse the first line of this is nonsense too. How it should actually read is how spending more than you raise isn't a deficit because the Scottish economy is not in deficit currently. We spend more than we raise, but fortunately that's because we get a generous grant from the Barnett Formula. 

[Glenanover]

43 minutes ago, Enigma said:

 

Most Scots would continue to lead a very comfortable life after independence. That wouldn’t change.

Really. How do you know that ?

[Glenanover]

12 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

1. No it doesn't. Scotland spends £13Bn more than it earns in revenue. That's a fact confirmed by the chief Scottish Government economists and statisticians and by the FInance Secretary Derek MacKay.

2. This too is rubbish. The total  revenues for the UK is pooled and the Barnett Formula decides how much of a Grant the Scottish Government gets. The Fraser and Allander blog went over this in a fair bit of detail. Scotland, through the Barnett Formula gets more money per head of population than almost every other region in the UK. The only one that gets more is Northern Ireland. 

3. Yes they do. This is true. And if you take out the effect of the three regions that were in surplus - London, South East of England and the East of England the deficit was £106Bn this year of which Scotland would have accounted for £13Bn. Fortunately that's not how the UK economy works. Again see the Fraser and Allander Institute blog for a more detailed explanation. 

4. The UK has a national debt. Interest is shared throughout the country. We're all in a political Union, which, as you will see from the Fraser and Allander blog and from the GERs Report that Scotland actually benefits substantially from. 

5. This is just utter made up shite. 

And ofcourse the first line of this is nonsense too. How it should actually read is how spending more than you raise isn't a deficit because the Scottish economy is not in deficit currently. We spend more than we raise, but fortunately that's because we get a generous grant from the Barnett Formula. 

Spot on yet again Malky.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

29 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

We've also seen the impact of one bitter divorce on the stability of our parliament and on our economy. Doing further damage to Scotland by going through a second expensive and damaging divorce which might include putting a hard border between us and England, and a hard border between Scottish exporters and the ports they export from, would have to be proven to be worth it. 

An absolute belter this one, even by your standards.

[Glenanover]

6 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

An absolute belter this one, even by your standards.

It's spot on.