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When will indyref2 happen?

Indyref2  

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39 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:


Firstly, I’d like to apologise to everyone that has asked to stop quoting the present SNPBaaad, too wee, too poor resident poster.

So Scotland is doing well? We are all comfortable & it’s entirely down to goons like Blair, Brown, Cameron, May? Why can’t the fact that Scotland has a pro-active government that puts Scotland first be a reason for us doing well? Before devolution, Scotland had a higher unemployment rate than Ruk in general terms. It’s a nonsense that you twist your argument two ways to suit whatever point you are arguing for the next 2 minutes! Either Scotland is failing or it isn’t, make you’re mind up.
2. The Scottish Government didn’t “grab power” from local authorities. It decided a national policy of council tax freeze for a number of years to protect the poorest in our society, likewise relief on bedroom tax. As I said, this is the indicator of a progressive & caring society.
3. Of course it’s possible, there are far more progressive & caring societies (even in Europe) , I’ve not seen the richest in Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few, exiting the country due to high tax regimes. Again, a fallacy only clubg to, by dyed in the wool Tories who believe everyone else is an absolute selfish c**t, just like them.
4. You are confusing the SNP with the general Independence movement, where, in the act of Union does it state that the BOE dictates financial policy over & above other nation states wishes? The pound is as much Scotlands as it is Englands. Now, the caveat is that it’s based in London which just happens to be in England, unless we have absolutely hell bent enemy of Scotland Indy types in UK power(which we will for evermore) then a fiscal policy could be worked out. However, there’s plenty other countries have set up a central bank & run deficits after Indy.
1. You are an absolute liar, yes, there is a small, even tiny minority of Indy supporters that are anti-English, they are wrong. Independence supporters are not anti-English and I’ve never met anyone in my circle of friends that wouldn’t want to be close friends with our nearest neighbour. Please show the SNP or YES movement senior figures that have endorsed anything other than an encompassing desire for reaching out to all nations.
 

Oh dear. Note to self: this is what happens when you try to engage in a reasonable discussion with a Nationalist. As soon as you challenge their seemingly calm and salient initial argument in a similarly polite manner they will retort with the words similar too "liar", "selfish", "yoon", "goon" and "c**t". 

Next time Malky don't be so niave as to assume theres a reasonable Scottish Nationalist. 

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8 hours ago, strichener said:

I accept that the actual amount borrowed was £250m as we appear to have received Barnett for Crossrail and other things to make up the difference.

What a mealy-mouthed apology!

No criticism whatsoever for Westminster going significantly over their calculated budget, and having to increase Barnett funding to reflect their own inability to keep to a budget.

If Scotland has received £157 million extra funding, this suggests that the overspend in England is approximately 10 times that figure, or around £1.5 billion!

NI & Wales will also have received additional Barnett funding in proportion to their populations, so the total amount is even higher.

Note that Strichiner also fails to give any credit whatsoever credit the Scottish Government for "fiscal capital underspends emerging across portfolios" 

To put a more exact figure on it, that works out as £43 million worth of savings against the budgeted Scottish Government capital spend last year.

Personally, I prefer to vote for a government that keeps within budget for necessary capital projects that benefit the people of Scotland as opposed to a government that spunks money away on vanity projects like HS2 & Crossrail. Maybe that's just me, though.

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Oh dear. Note to self: this is what happens when you try to engage in a reasonable discussion with a Nationalist. As soon as you challenge their seemingly calm and salient initial argument in a similarly polite manner they will retort with the words similar too "liar", "selfish", "yoon", "goon" and "c**t". 
Next time Malky don't be so niave as to assume theres a reasonable Scottish Nationalist. 

I only called you a liar, which you are.
If you’re also associating yourself with recent Tory & Blairite governments that’s up to you.
Actually, your inability to address the points raised, means that you are the first person I’ve put on ignore.
You Yoon, c**t, Tory.

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30 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Oh dear. Note to self: this is what happens when you try to engage in a reasonable discussion with a Nationalist. As soon as you challenge their seemingly calm and salient initial argument in a similarly polite manner they will retort with the words similar too "liar", "selfish", "yoon", "goon" and "c**t". 

Next time Malky don't be so niave as to assume theres a reasonable Scottish Nationalist. 

To be honest Malky, I think that is what happens when you are shown a different side to your argument and you can't accept it.  You have stated what your opinions are and others have stated theirs.  It appears that you only accept your own points as correct, despite reasons to the contrary.

I do hope that you consider voting Yes when we hold our Independence referendum.  

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1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

Oh dear. Note to self: this is what happens when you try to engage in a reasonable discussion with a Nationalist. As soon as you challenge their seemingly calm and salient initial argument in a similarly polite manner they will retort with the words similar too "liar", "selfish", "yoon", "goon" and "c**t". 

Next time Malky don't be so niave as to assume theres a reasonable Scottish Nationalist. 

You were calling people stupid, idiots and liars earlier in the thread, so your Helen Lovejoy faux outrage doesn't really wash m9.

While we're on the subject of lies, how about you tell us more about the OBFA ?

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54 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

What a mealy-mouthed apology!

No criticism whatsoever for Westminster going significantly over their calculated budget, and having to increase Barnett funding to reflect their own inability to keep to a budget.

If Scotland has received £157 million extra funding, this suggests that the overspend in England is approximately 10 times that figure, or around £1.5 billion!

NI & Wales will also have received additional Barnett funding in proportion to their populations, so the total amount is even higher.

Note that Strichiner also fails to give any credit whatsoever credit the Scottish Government for "fiscal capital underspends emerging across portfolios" 

To put a more exact figure on it, that works out as £43 million worth of savings against the budgeted Scottish Government capital spend last year.

Personally, I prefer to vote for a government that keeps within budget for necessary capital projects that benefit the people of Scotland as opposed to a government that spunks money away on vanity projects like HS2 & Crossrail. Maybe that's just me, though.

It wasn't an apology. 

Of course there was no mention of Westminster going over budget as the topic is Scotland spending more than it raises.  Interestingly the £43m of capital underspend in 2018/19 is likely to be deferred rather than savings since the 2019/20 budget is anticipating the use of the full £450m borrowing powers and a drawdown from reserves of £313m including £46m of capital funding.

Of course the Scottish Government hasn't spunked any money on projects, no sireee.  The Edinburgh Trams was the embodiment of excellent governance and let's not get started on the IT projects at NHS 24,  SPPA and Rural Payments.  We await the result of negotiations over the AWPR to see how much, if anything, this costs us.

The lack of transparency in the Scottish Government has been raised numerous times (e.g. on loans to FMSL and BiFab) with the Scottish Government repeatedly pledging to release full accounts when pressed by the Auditor General and as yet it hasn't happened.  I will await Audit Scotland's report on NPD value for money before handing out any plaudits for capital projects under the current administration.

Edited by strichener

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8 minutes ago, strichener said:

Of course the Scottish Government hasn't spunked any money on projects, no sireee.  The Edinburgh Trams was the embodiment of excellent governance.

It's a bit disingenuous to lay the trams fiasco at the door of the Scottish government.

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1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

It's a bit disingenuous to lay the trams fiasco at the door of the Scottish government.

I'm just surprised that he didn't blame the SNP for the overspend on the cost of the parliament building.

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1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

You were calling people stupid, idiots and liars earlier in the thread, so your Helen Lovejoy faux outrage doesn't really wash m9.

While we're on the subject of lies, how about you tell us more about the OBFA ?

I'd love to help you but you don't really help yourself. 

From this post I'm guessing this Helen Lovejoy lady works for one of those road sweeper companies doing the M9 motorway but not cleaning it very well. 

And the OBFA? Is that the Objectionable b*****d From Ayrshire? 

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7 minutes ago, Double Jack D said:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=409072756546230&id=398035157649990

All this talk about deficits reminded me of the video I've hopefully linked above.

A view from an Irish perspective. People from other countries really must wonder wtf we were thinking in 2014!

It comes down to having a media owned, edited and controlled entirely in another country, the one that wishes to retain control of our natural resources.

If Scotland had a free, fair, balanced, objective, professional mainstream media with professionalism and integrity that was actually based in Scotland we'd have voted for independence by an absolute landslide, 70% plus.  For the simple fact its a total no brainer, but most people are lazy and stupid, and their opinions are conditioned by the MSM, which is 99% London owned, orientated, and edited, and has been engaged in a daily war for years and years to prevent Scottish self government. 

Added to the hundreds of years of propaganda and conditioning leading up to this point of course.

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5 hours ago, Malky3 said:

I don't think Scotland is failing. We're enjoying the benefit of being the worlds 5th biggest economy. We've got low levels of unemployment, low interest rates, low inflation and salaries that are rising ahead of inflation. I'm doing pretty well personally and my kids are doing well in their chosen professions. Thats why the economic argument is important to me. 

I have some sympathy with number 2 on your list. Devolution - which I supportrd - was supposed to fix that. However I fear it hasn't. Many of the local authorities in Scotland are increasingly frustrated by the Scottish Parliaments grab of powers from them. 

Number 3 cannot happen in a positive way unless you can afford it. We could make things more equal by chasing the wealthy out of Scotland with high taxation - as many nationalists seem to call for - but all that means is there is a far smaller financial pool to share out equally as the over all tax take falls and foreign  investment dries up. Personally I prefer to see us all being wealthier rather than more equal. I don't care how my life measures against Simon Cowell, just that I'm financially comfortabble. 

4 is also impossible without our own currency. Unfortunately the SNP policy is for sterlingisation. Do a quick search, read up on it and you'll see why fiscal autonomy is not being proposed as part of the nationalist deal. 

And number 1 is slightly strange if you don't mind me saying so. The nationalists have stoked anti English xenophobia and isolationism all my life. A hard border between us and our closest friends and neighbours seems silly whether its Brexit or Indy Ref 2

Straightforward lie.

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2 hours ago, Stinky Bone said:

To be honest Malky, I think that is what happens when you are shown a different side to your argument and you can't accept it.  You have stated what your opinions are and others have stated theirs.  It appears that you only accept your own points as correct, despite reasons to the contrary.

I do hope that you consider voting Yes when we hold our Independence referendum.  

I don't think that's fair. I do tend to respond in kind, so if someone is abusive I'll respond in a similar fashion. However where there is an attempt at a reasonable debate, I'm happy to engage in hopefully a polite and respectful manner. What you appear to be asking me to do is to ask my questions, read a response that acknowledges a lack of evidence but which asks everyone to take a leap of faith, and to then accept that as a valid reason to change my vote. I don't think that is particularly realistic. 

And I'll be honest if the standard of debate is as ignorant and as disrespectful as it has been on most of these pages - I honestly hope Indy Ref 2 never happens. The first referendum has led to people like Sandy on here calling for fellow countrymen with a different political view to him to leave the country. God knows what sort of state the poor sod - and his ilk - would be in if when Scotland rejects Independence for a second time in such a short time frame. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Kuro said:

It comes down to having a media owned, edited and controlled entirely in another country, the one that wishes to retain control of our natural resources.

If Scotland had a free, fair, balanced, objective, professional mainstream media with professionalism and integrity that was actually based in Scotland we'd have voted for independence by an absolute landslide, 70% plus.  For the simple fact its a total no brainer, but most people are lazy and stupid, and their opinions are conditioned by the MSM, which is 99% London owned, orientated, and edited, and has been engaged in a daily war for years and years to prevent Scottish self government. 

Added to the hundreds of years of propaganda and conditioning leading up to this point of course.

It's certainly not, and it wasn't for 55% of the electorate. 

If it was a no brainer the SNP with their White Paper, and Nationalists of all hues would have had no problem at all showing us the financial evidence as to why Scottish Independence would be so successful. The fact is that if we were to have implemented the White Paper after the 2014 Independence Referendum the country would have run up a £29.8Bn deficit because of the failure of oil revenues to live up to the predictions that they'd made. 

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Just now, Malky3 said:

It's certainly not, and it wasn't for 55% of the electorate. 

If it was a no brainer the SNP with their White Paper, and Nationalists of all hues would have had no problem at all showing us the financial evidence as to why Scottish Independence would be so successful. The fact is that if we were to have implemented the White Paper after the 2014 Independence Referendum the country would have run up a £29.8Bn deficit because of the failure of oil revenues to live up to the predictions that they'd made. 

Shut up you uberwank.

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25 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

I'd love to help you but you don't really help yourself. 

From this post I'm guessing this Helen Lovejoy lady works for one of those road sweeper companies doing the M9 motorway but not cleaning it very well. 

And the OBFA? Is that the Objectionable b*****d From Ayrshire? 

Ah, this is the bit where you stall for time before disappearing, hoping everyone has forgotten your lies.

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20 minutes ago, beefybake said:

Straightforward lie.

Nope. 

If you want to prove me wrong, perhaps you can show a single example of an SNP leader supporting the English National Football team or Rugby team. 

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