When will indyref2 happen?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

So far on this thread I have 

Lied about the OBFA then ran away when I was called out on it.

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

The response is more smears. 

met with ridicule and more abuse.

You've been dishing out plenty abuse yourself, so I'm quite rightly going to file your mewling, tear stained concerns in the fucking bin.

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

Then Perthshirebell posts that he wonders if I'll be banned any time soon. A typical cry of Nationalists who aee losing the debate! 

A bit of advice here, the mods won't ban you for being a British nationalist, but they have been known to ban folk for being tedious bores who spam threads.

Something to think about.

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

If anyone wants any evidence as to why Scottish Independence will never happen they just need to ask themselves if they think they are doing enough to sell it to the sizable majority of us who are skeptical. 

None of us are on pie and bovril to try and sell independence. Especially not to people who have already made their minds up.

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

Is the offer of deportation of all political opposition going to make those who voted no last time vote for a Totalitarian State next time round? 

Another bit of advice, stuff like this marks you out as a roaster who is arguing in bad faith.

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

incompitence

You're still spelling this word wrongly.

[NotThePars]

Kinda mad isn't it that Haiti is still to this day being intentionally punished by the USA for successfully prosecuting a slave revolution.

Makes the Cubans resisting America for 50+ years even more impressive. Kings.

[Double Jack D]

2 hours ago, Malky3 said:

So far on this thread I have outlined the fact that life in Scotland is quite comfortable for most within the UK union and I asked for example and proof of what Independence would offer that was better

The most popular answer was an "I'm alright Jack" smear along with similar name calling variations often linking me to "yer pal Boris". One person said he would follow Irelands lead and cut Corporation Tax. He was promptly shouted down with allegations tbat this would be a race to the bottom. No other examples or proof of what Independence would bring the UK were offered. 

I referenced the fact that Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation. Figures backed up by Scottish Government figures. The response is to rubbish the GERS figures saying that they are inaccurate and that we shouldn't worry about money despite the fact that in their 8 years in power, handling the books, the SNP have failed to come up with any verifiable methodology to oppose the GERS figures. Apparently in the land of unicorns we shouldn't look too closely incase we scare off the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. 

When I showed that the SNP policy of Sterlingisation means there would have to be no budget deficit and asked where the £13Bn in budget cuts would come from the only answers were general abuse. Apparently Edinburgh is the 4th largest Financial City in Europe according to a dodgy, now redundant WordPress Blog from 2010, and when I point out that Industry Standard measures used by experts globally ranked Edinburgh as 8th or 11th in Europe on March 20th 2019 depending on which table you want to base it on I am accused of talking Scotland down and assuming we're a shitehole. I'm asked why I didn't think Edinburgh could become the biggest financial centre in Europe and I reference a quote from the head of RBS who says they would be forced to relocate out of Scotland in the event of Independence because the Scottish economy would be too small to bail them out. The response is more smears. 

I quote an article where one of the biggest financial backer of the SNP and an economic advisor to Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon has accused the Scottish Government of incompitence, of abusing its power and of operating in "Standard Grade economics"  I'm told he's a "right wing tax exile". I'm then told to"leave the country" - the country of my birth, where I have worked and contributed all my life. When I point out its my country too that is met with ridicule and more abuse. 

Then Perthshirebell posts that he wonders if I'll be banned any time soon. A typical cry of Nationalists who aee losing the debate! 

If anyone wants any evidence as to why Scottish Independence will never happen they just need to ask themselves if they think they are doing enough to sell it to the sizable majority of us who are skeptical. Is the offer of deportation of all political opposition going to make those who voted no last time vote for a Totalitarian State next time round? 

I'm not sold.. Frankly I think Sandy and his mates would make great nominees for the "heads gone" thread. 

 

I'd like to focus on this. 

The Scottish Parliament has a fixed budget that it cannot overspend, therefore the £13bn budget "overspend" cannot come from the following (non exhaustive) public services:

• Health
• Education
• Transport
• Justice and Policing
• Housing
• Local Authority Budgets
• Environmental Protection

Can you clarify what this £13bn overspend is actually on and where the power lies that makes such economically illiterate decisions?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

So far on this thread I have outlined the fact that life in Scotland is quite comfortable for most within the UK union and I asked for example and proof of what Independence would offer that was better
The most popular answer was an "I'm alright Jack" smear along with similar name calling variations often linking me to "yer pal Boris". One person said he would follow Irelands lead and cut Corporation Tax. He was promptly shouted down with allegations tbat this would be a race to the bottom. No other examples or proof of what Independence would bring the UK were offered. 
I referenced the fact that Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation. Figures backed up by Scottish Government figures. The response is to rubbish the GERS figures saying that they are inaccurate and that we shouldn't worry about money despite the fact that in their 8 years in power, handling the books, the SNP have failed to come up with any verifiable methodology to oppose the GERS figures. Apparently in the land of unicorns we shouldn't look too closely incase we scare off the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. 
When I showed that the SNP policy of Sterlingisation means there would have to be no budget deficit and asked where the £13Bn in budget cuts would come from the only answers were general abuse. Apparently Edinburgh is the 4th largest Financial City in Europe according to a dodgy, now redundant WordPress Blog from 2010, and when I point out that Industry Standard measures used by experts globally ranked Edinburgh as 8th or 11th in Europe on March 20th 2019 depending on which table you want to base it on I am accused of talking Scotland down and assuming we're a shitehole. I'm asked why I didn't think Edinburgh could become the biggest financial centre in Europe and I reference a quote from the head of RBS who says they would be forced to relocate out of Scotland in the event of Independence because the Scottish economy would be too small to bail them out. The response is more smears. 
I quote an article where one of the biggest financial backer of the SNP and an economic advisor to Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon has accused the Scottish Government of incompitence, of abusing its power and of operating in "Standard Grade economics"  I'm told he's a "right wing tax exile". I'm then told to"leave the country" - the country of my birth, where I have worked and contributed all my life. When I point out its my country too that is met with ridicule and more abuse. 
Then Perthshirebell posts that he wonders if I'll be banned any time soon. A typical cry of Nationalists who aee losing the debate! 
If anyone wants any evidence as to why Scottish Independence will never happen they just need to ask themselves if they think they are doing enough to sell it to the sizable majority of us who are skeptical. Is the offer of deportation of all political opposition going to make those who voted no last time vote for a Totalitarian State next time round? 
I'm not sold.. Frankly I think Sandy and his mates would make great nominees for the "heads gone" thread. 
 

No you outlined your opinion. Didn't bother with the rest of your tedious, likely whiny pish.

[Malky3]

46 minutes ago, Double Jack D said:

I'd like to focus on this. 

The Scottish Parliament has a fixed budget that it cannot overspend, therefore the £13bn budget "overspend" cannot come from the following (non exhaustive) public services:

• Health
• Education
• Transport
• Justice and Policing
• Housing
• Local Authority Budgets
• Environmental Protection

Can you clarify what this £13bn overspend is actually on and where the power lies that makes such economically illiterate decisions?

I have no idea. I don't have access to anything more accurate than the GERS report. I'm Wee Malky not Derek MacKay. However if you have access to a more detailed breakdown that can be propely scrutinised I'd love to see it. 

What I do know is that by 2018 the gap between the projections in the SNP White Paper and the actual revenues taken in showed a deficit of £29.9Bn. What I'd love to know is what parts of the SNP spending plans from 2014 would have been cut to balance the budget as they MUST do if the currency policy is, as stated, Sterlingisation? 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Malky3

[Gordon EF]

12 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

haiti

Nice summers though I hear. Next.

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Malky3 said:

I have no idea.

Should have stopped there tbh.

[Double Jack D]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

I have no idea. I don't have access to anything more accurate than the GERS report. I'm Wee Malky not Derek MacKay. However if you have access to a more detailed breakdown that can be propely scrutinised I'd love to see it. 

What I do know is that by 2018 the gap between the projections in the SNP White Paper and the actual revenues taken in showed a deficit of £29.9Bn. What I'd love to know is what parts of the SNP spending plans from 2014 would have been cut to balance the budget as they MUST do if the currency policy is, as stated, Sterlingisation? 

Derek MacKay wont know either, as I said in my post he balances his budget.

As for your second paragraph, £29.9bn is pretty much the entire Scottish Parliament budget. I'd love to see your working on how an independent Scotland would have a deficit that size?

FWIW I'm no fan of sterlingisation, the only way for Indy to work is to have our own currency.

[tirso]

5 hours ago, Malky3 said:

So far on this thread I have outlined the fact that life in Scotland is quite comfortable for most within the UK union and I asked for example and proof of what Independence would offer that was better

The most popular answer was an "I'm alright Jack" smear along with similar name calling variations often linking me to "yer pal Boris". One person said he would follow Irelands lead and cut Corporation Tax. He was promptly shouted down with allegations tbat this would be a race to the bottom. No other examples or proof of what Independence would bring the UK were offered. 

I referenced the fact that Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation. Figures backed up by Scottish Government figures. The response is to rubbish the GERS figures saying that they are inaccurate and that we shouldn't worry about money despite the fact that in their 8 years in power, handling the books, the SNP have failed to come up with any verifiable methodology to oppose the GERS figures. Apparently in the land of unicorns we shouldn't look too closely incase we scare off the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. 

When I showed that the SNP policy of Sterlingisation means there would have to be no budget deficit and asked where the £13Bn in budget cuts would come from the only answers were general abuse. Apparently Edinburgh is the 4th largest Financial City in Europe according to a dodgy, now redundant WordPress Blog from 2010, and when I point out that Industry Standard measures used by experts globally ranked Edinburgh as 8th or 11th in Europe on March 20th 2019 depending on which table you want to base it on I am accused of talking Scotland down and assuming we're a shitehole. I'm asked why I didn't think Edinburgh could become the biggest financial centre in Europe and I reference a quote from the head of RBS who says they would be forced to relocate out of Scotland in the event of Independence because the Scottish economy would be too small to bail them out. The response is more smears. 

I quote an article where one of the biggest financial backer of the SNP and an economic advisor to Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon has accused the Scottish Government of incompitence, of abusing its power and of operating in "Standard Grade economics"  I'm told he's a "right wing tax exile". I'm then told to"leave the country" - the country of my birth, where I have worked and contributed all my life. When I point out its my country too that is met with ridicule and more abuse. 

Then Perthshirebell posts that he wonders if I'll be banned any time soon. A typical cry of Nationalists who aee losing the debate! 

If anyone wants any evidence as to why Scottish Independence will never happen they just need to ask themselves if they think they are doing enough to sell it to the sizable majority of us who are skeptical. Is the offer of deportation of all political opposition going to make those who voted no last time vote for a Totalitarian State next time round? 

I'm not sold.. Frankly I think Sandy and his mates would make great nominees for the "heads gone" thread. 

 

I think it's reasonable to expect answers to these points.  

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in all of this.  The main benefit I can think of is it would be a chance to govern normally and not talk about the constitution.  I think it would be great for the people of this country to have a real democracy with responsibility.  Just normal.  You can call it blind faith if you wish but I simply believe Scotland can be economically competent.  There is a balance of opinions from very learned people on the independence side.  It's not an unrealistic or stupid proposition.  I find where Yes supporters may overplay positives, some No supporters seem to cream themselves at anything that could be construed as negative.  With Scotland's population and resources, we basically should be able to be independent quite easily.  If we can't now, why is that?  And what are Yes and No politicians doing together to change that?  If we're able to be independent then it's good whether we chose to or not.  

It's going to be unrealistic for Scotland to have no deficit.  I'm not sure why our bar has to be higher than every other country.  The EU provides the ability to be a small, more democratic nation in a changing world.  At root, I believe we should follow in the footsteps of Denmark and Ireland.  I don't see what they have that we couldn't.  We have a high GDP already in comparison to many other European countries. 

[strichener]

4 hours ago, Double Jack D said:

I'd like to focus on this. 

The Scottish Parliament has a fixed budget that it cannot overspend, therefore the £13bn budget "overspend" cannot come from the following (non exhaustive) public services:

• Health
• Education
• Transport
• Justice and Policing
• Housing
• Local Authority Budgets
• Environmental Protection

Can you clarify what this £13bn overspend is actually on and where the power lies that makes such economically illiterate decisions?

The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend".

Additionally the post that you responded to did not use the word "overspend" so I have no idea why you have put it in quotes.  This poster claimed that " Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation.".  In as similar vein, my wife also has a fixed budget and she quite comfortably manages to spend more than she earns.

[Baxter Parp]

The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend".
Additionally the post that you responded to did not use the word "overspend" so I have no idea why you have put it in quotes.  This poster claimed that " Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation.".  In as similar vein, my wife also has a fixed budget and she quite comfortably manages to spend more than she earns. [emoji3]

Thankfully neither of you has anything to do with the Scottish budget. The Scottish Government budgets for debt repayments, there is no overspend. In fact, it faces criticism for underspending every year.

[Double Jack D]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend".

Additionally the post that you responded to did not use the word "overspend" so I have no idea why you have put it in quotes.  This poster claimed that " Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation.".  In as similar vein, my wife also has a fixed budget and she quite comfortably manages to spend more than she earns.

Fairly sure the last couple of years there has been considerable complaints from opposition parties at Holyrood about the Scottish Government underspending its budget.

So who in Scotland is spending this £13bn if the Scottish Parliament isnt?

Edited August 13, 2019 by Double Jack D

[Double Jack D]

2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

1 hour ago, strichener said:

The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend".
Additionally the post that you responded to did not use the word "overspend" so I have no idea why you have put it in quotes.  This poster claimed that " Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation.".  In as similar vein, my wife also has a fixed budget and she quite comfortably manages to spend more than she earns.

Thankfully neither of you has anything to do with the Scottish budget. The Scottish Government budgets for debt repayments, there is no overspend. In fact, it faces criticism for underspending every year.

Beat me to it. 

 

[DiegoDiego]

I believe we should follow in the footsteps of Denmark.  I don't see what they have that we couldn't.

Lego mines.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

2 hours ago, strichener said:

The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend".
Additionally the post that you responded to did not use the word "overspend" so I have no idea why you have put it in quotes.  This poster claimed that " Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation.".  In as similar vein, my wife also has a fixed budget and she quite comfortably manages to spend more than she earns.

Thankfully neither of you has anything to do with the Scottish budget. The Scottish Government budgets for debt repayments, there is no overspend. In fact, it faces criticism for underspending every year.

1 hour ago, Double Jack D said:

Fairly sure the last couple of years there has been considerable complaints from opposition parties at Holyrood about the Scottish Government underspending its budget.

So who in Scotland is spending this £13bn if the Scottish Parliament isnt?

It is the level of the budget in comparison to income that was posted about.  Nobody has claimed that the SNP has "overspent" it's budget but feel free to try and keep the strawman alive.

 

[Baxter Parp]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

It is the level of the budget in comparison to income that was posted about.  Nobody has claimed that the SNP has "overspent" it's budget but feel free to try and keep the strawman alive.

"The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend"."

The strawman is you.

[BawWatchin]

10 hours ago, Malky3 said:

I have no idea.

Neither do I, or anybody else on this thread, or the Scottish Government for that matter.

Yet, we're supposed to believe that Scotland legitmately has a £13bn deficit when the money is borrowed by the UK Government for reasons we don't get to know anything about.

[BawWatchin]

6 hours ago, strichener said:

The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend".

Additionally the post that you responded to did not use the word "overspend" so I have no idea why you have put it in quotes.  This poster claimed that " Scotland currently spends around £13Bn per annum more than it generates in taxation.".  In as similar vein, my wife also has a fixed budget and she quite comfortably manages to spend more than she earns.

Scotland doesn't spend £13bn per annum more than it generates in taxation. It (alledgidly) has £13bn more spent on it by the UK Government than it generates in taxation. What that money is specifically spent on in Scotland however isn't public knowledge, or knowledge to the Scottish Government.

As for Scottish Parliamaent borrowing, that's capped at around £500m per annum and exists to offset the underspend.

[git-intae-thum]

17 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Scotland doesn't spend £13bn per annum more than it generates in taxation. It (alledgidly) has £13bn more spent on it by the UK Government than it generates in taxation. What that money is specifically spent on in Scotland however isn't public knowledge, or knowledge to the Scottish Government.

As for Scottish Parliamaent borrowing, that's capped at around £500m per annum and exists to offset the underspend.

Don't forget we simply do not know how much revenue Scotland raises.

For various reasons mentioned on this board on numerous occasions, Scottish revenue is likely to be seriously underestimated in the GERS figures.

Any unionist/British nationalist harping on about 13 billion deficits is spreading lies.

Edited August 13, 2019 by git-intae-thum

[strichener]

3 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

"The Scottish Parliament does not have a fixed budget.  It has borrowing powers and therefore can spend more than it raises/is allocated and therefore it does actually "overspend"."

The strawman is you.

The Scottish Government raised £450 million in borrowings last year.  They have clearly overspent.  They have not overspent on their budget as this 450m was included in the budget.  There is a difference between the two.