When will indyref2 happen?

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

I've said before that I am quite long in the tooth, and sadly I've seen all this nonsense before. Back in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up the SNP were seen by many in the West Of Scotland as being a party for Catholics. It's kind of sad to see that after nearly 60 years Scottish politics hasn't really changed. In the last few posts some Nationalist dinosaurs have decided to lump all who fail to follow the Nationalist Cult as Freemasons, Orange Order, protestant, Rangers Supporting Royalists. 

 

I'm surprised by this. My grandparents and parents, and many of both generations, were strongly opposed to the SNP due to their anti-catholic history.

[DublinMagyar]

I'm surprised by this. My grandparents and parents, and many of both generations, were strongly opposed to the SNP due to their anti-catholic history.

mine too

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I've said before that I am quite long in the tooth, and sadly I've seen all this nonsense before. Back in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up the SNP were seen by many in the West Of Scotland as being a party for Catholics. It's kind of sad to see that after nearly 60 years Scottish politics hasn't really changed. In the last few posts some Nationalist dinosaurs have decided to lump all who fail to follow the Nationalist Cult as Freemasons, Orange Order, protestant, Rangers Supporting Royalists. 
I had hoped that in the modern Scotland we were making some progress towards eradicating sectarianism when in 2012 we saw the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act passed into law unopposed but by 2018 the SNP had repealed the Act, and on these pages we can see why. It's sad really but it seems the Nationalist Cult needs to sow division on any grounds whatsoever to gain traction for their cause. 

Sorry i forgot about the Loyal Orange Lodge for yes campaign group that’s so prevalent.

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

In 2012 we saw the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act passed into law unopposed but by 2018 the SNP had repealed the Act

Apologies for quoting the troll, but blatant lies like this cannot be allowed to pass unchallenged.

The OBFA was introduced by the SNP and passed by 64 votes to 57. It was opposed by the Tories, Labour, the Lib-Dems and the Greens.

It was repealed by the same 4 parties acting in concert, not by the SNP.

 

[Victor von Doom]

I can't see why a second referendum is necessary. 

A motion in Westminster should do it.

"This House believes that the self-righteous, whingeing, deluded ingrates in Scotland should be cut adrift from the United Kingdom forthwith and that all UK citizens of Scottish ethnicity or heritage be stripped of their UK passports and their right to work in the UK with immediate effect."

Boris could go for a three-line whip on that... maybe even wielded by a dominatrix in Nazi uniform. (The Nazi uniform could accompany the expelled Scots back over the border, as it would be ideal attire for the majority of Scottish nationalists.)

[Baxter Parp]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

Oh aye, that covers the 2m people right enough. 

Nobody said all No voters were LOL, dolt. All LOL were No like all racists were leave though.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

I've said before that I am quite long in the tooth, and sadly I've seen all this nonsense before. Back in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up the SNP were seen by many in the West Of Scotland as being a party for Catholics. It's kind of sad to see that after nearly 60 years Scottish politics hasn't really changed. In the last few posts some Nationalist dinosaurs have decided to lump all who fail to follow the Nationalist Cult as Freemasons, Orange Order, protestant, Rangers Supporting Royalists. 

I had hoped that in the modern Scotland we were making some progress towards eradicating sectarianism when in 2012 we saw the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act passed into law unopposed but by 2018 the SNP had repealed the Act, and on these pages we can see why. It's sad really but it seems the Nationalist Cult needs to sow division on any grounds whatsoever to gain traction for their cause. 

This is complete and utter bollocks. I mean, the perception may have existed in the incestuous cesspit from whence you came, but it has no basis in the wider community.

In the Monklands by-election there was a huge, frequently nearly physical, rammy between Labour and the SNP - in part fuelled by Labour being connted with Catholic Coatbridge, and the SNP with... what should I call it, very-much-not Catholic Airdrie.

The power of the Labour-Trade Union-Catholic Church connections, especially in Lanarkshire, should never be underestimated.

In the 70s there was a huge storm when the SNP leader Billy Wolfe made comments that were taken as anti-Catholic. It was all a bit silly, but because it played into the 'SNP are anti-Catholic' thing it gained a lot of traction. The SNP were traditionally very soft on denominational schooling, which didn't help. It is only within the past few years that the SNP have made any inraods into what could be thought of as a Catholic electorate - probably in part because of the obvious hostility towards the SNP, and independence, from the blue side.

 

[Baxter Parp]

50 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

I'm surprised by this. My grandparents and parents, and many of both generations, were strongly opposed to the SNP due to their anti-catholic history.

At points the SNP were portrayed as anti-catholic, pro-catholic, tartan tory, kilty teuchter hayseeds, slick willies, you name it.  Anything to get leverage for the Labour party.

[ayrmad]

2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

At points the SNP were portrayed as anti-catholic, pro-catholic, tartan tory, kilty teuchter hayseeds, slick willies, you name it.  Anything to get leverage for the Labour party.

Now they're the dogs.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I've said before that I am quite long in the tooth, and sadly I've seen all this nonsense before. Back in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up the SNP were seen by many in the West Of Scotland as being a party for Catholics.

I’m a bit younger, I’m from the East Coast and not Roman Catholic so I’ve no direct memoryof this but I’d previously accepted the received historical opinion that the Scottish Labour Party had historically been dominated, to at least some extent, by west coast Roman Catholics and there had been a mistrust and hostility amongst the RC Establishment towards Scottish Nationalism thanks to a perceived undercurrent of anti-Irish sentiment.

Are you saying this conventional understanding of that era in Scottish Politics is wrong?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I've said before that I am quite long in the tooth, and sadly I've seen all this nonsense before. Back in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up the SNP were seen by many in the West Of Scotland as being a party for Catholics. It's kind of sad to see that after nearly 60 years Scottish politics hasn't really changed. In the last few posts some Nationalist dinosaurs have decided to lump all who fail to follow the Nationalist Cult as Freemasons, Orange Order, protestant, Rangers Supporting Royalists. 
I had hoped that in the modern Scotland we were making some progress towards eradicating sectarianism when in 2012 we saw the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act passed into law unopposed but by 2018 the SNP had repealed the Act, and on these pages we can see why. It's sad really but it seems the Nationalist Cult needs to sow division on any grounds whatsoever to gain traction for their cause. 

In which alternate reality did this happen?

The only party that has any links to the Catholic hierarchy is the Labour Party - certainly my experience is that they used it to convince Catholic voters that the SNP was anti Catholic.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I can't see why a second referendum is necessary. 
A motion in Westminster should do it.
"This House believes that the self-righteous, whingeing, deluded ingrates in Scotland should be cut adrift from the United Kingdom forthwith and that all UK citizens of Scottish ethnicity or heritage be stripped of their UK passports and their right to work in the UK with immediate effect."
Boris could go for a three-line whip on that... maybe even wielded by a dominatrix in Nazi uniform. (The Nazi uniform could accompany the expelled Scots back over the border, as it would be ideal attire for the majority of Scottish nationalists.)

Its good the yoons aren’t in any way rattled.

[Gaz FFC]

3 hours ago, Malky3 said:

According to official figures 2,001,926 Scots voted No in the 2014 referendum

Orange Order Membership in Scotland is put at 50,000. 

The same as the capacity of Ibrox. Weird 

[Malky3]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

In which alternate reality did this happen?

The only party that has any links to the Catholic hierarchy is the Labour Party - certainly my experience is that they used it to convince Catholic voters that the SNP was anti Catholic.
 

 

Not an alternate reality at all. In the 60's, 70's and even into the 80's it was a regular argument as to why you shouldn't vote SNP - at least in and around the Glasgow and Paisley area. The only justification I heard for that argument was that they had links to Irish Republicanism. 

I'm not arguing that any of it was ever correct BTW, I was just as disbelieving back then of those shite stories as I am today of Nationalists claiming that every No voter is a Union Flag wearing, Orange Order Royalist. As I said I had thought we were beyond that shite - but it seems a fair number of Nationalists on this forum are intent on dragging sectarianism and bigotry into the debate in the same way they do with their anti English xenophobia. 

All these pages on since I first posted on here and only one Nationalist has posted anything positive that might change if Scotland became Independent. He wanted to scrap Corporation Tax and was immediately shouted down by fellow Nationalists who had no positive contribution to make other than to slag of England, Yoons, Westminster and Brexit. It's a shame to see such poor standards of political discourse. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I'm not arguing that any of it was ever correct BTW,

 

I understand

 

You’re using “Were seen by many” in the same way that Sports journalists use “Rumoured to be interested in” or “has been linked”

 

 

 

[Malky3]

3 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

I’m a bit younger, I’m from the East Coast and not Roman Catholic so I’ve no direct memoryof this but I’d previously accepted the received historical opinion that the Scottish Labour Party had historically been dominated, to at least some extent, by west coast Roman Catholics and there had been a mistrust and hostility amongst the RC Establishment towards Scottish Nationalism thanks to a perceived undercurrent of anti-Irish sentiment.

Are you saying this conventional understanding of that era in Scottish Politics is wrong?
 

 

There is some truth to that too. In North Lanarkshire, even into the 90's, the Catholic Church was supposed to have a strong influence over what candidates the party would put forward in the area. The story went that the Archdiocese in Motherwell headed by Cardinal Winning had undue influence and that Jack McConnell fought that in the local area. I don't think the church had the same influence in other areas. 

We should all be beyond this nonsense though. It does no-one any credit whatsoever to bring religious dogma into the political arena - and it's does the Nationalist movement no credit at all to continually tar 55% of Scots as Orange Order / Freemasons. 

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

I understand

You’re using “Were seen by many” in the same way that Sports journalists use “Rumoured to be interested in”

 

Tell me if the SNP political history was predominately catholic or protestant would that change your vote? If it did then that says far more about you than it does about anything else. 

 

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Tbf my catholic father in law was the head goat killer in the masons for a while. That said most of his friends from it are rampant tory no voting types.

I think he could technically get excommunicated for that

But they never excommunicated Mozart so he’ll probably be OK

[Malky3]

3 hours ago, GordonS said:

This is complete and utter bollocks. I mean, the perception may have existed in the incestuous cesspit from whence you came, but it has no basis in the wider community.

In the Monklands by-election there was a huge, frequently nearly physical, rammy between Labour and the SNP - in part fuelled by Labour being connted with Catholic Coatbridge, and the SNP with... what should I call it, very-much-not Catholic Airdrie.

The power of the Labour-Trade Union-Catholic Church connections, especially in Lanarkshire, should never be underestimated.

In the 70s there was a huge storm when the SNP leader Billy Wolfe made comments that were taken as anti-Catholic. It was all a bit silly, but because it played into the 'SNP are anti-Catholic' thing it gained a lot of traction. The SNP were traditionally very soft on denominational schooling, which didn't help. It is only within the past few years that the SNP have made any inraods into what could be thought of as a Catholic electorate - probably in part because of the obvious hostility towards the SNP, and independence, from the blue side.

 

Sorry, I'm reading the forum back to front, but yes. You are correct about North Lanarkshire. I think I'm quite clear on where I stand on the use of sectarianism in Scottish politics. Maybe if you were as quick to pick up on the shite posted by Nationalists earlier on in the thread tagging all No voters as Orange Order members I'd see you as being more even handed. 

[lichtgilphead]

Wee Malky McMalkface thread for this shite.