Jump to content
Colkitto

When will indyref2 happen?

Indyref2  

589 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

The comments on the HYS underneath the Sturgeon article on the bbc are at Harriet levels of seeming upset.  The thread is swimming in a cocktail of tears, vitriol and pish. 

Edited by HTG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The comments on the HYS underneath the Sturgeon article on the bbc are at Harriet levels of seeming upset.  The thread is swimming in a cocktail of tears, vitriol and pish. 
It's tremendous reading. I think "Drew Stirling" might (hopefully) have a coronary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

It's tremendous reading. I think "Drew Stirling" might (hopefully) have a coronary emoji23.png

If he does, he can console himself that thanks to the best performing NHS in his land of milk and honey, he might actually survive. And he'll have to blame wee Krankie - that should tip him over. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/25/nicola-sturgeon-calls-for-new-scotland-independence-vote

Good.

What is not so good is that Boris will either reject devolving the s.30 power along with denying his consent to a new vote......or more likely just ignore her.

You can only imagine that the Tories short term plan is to totally marginalise the Scottish parliament, leading to a longer term gradual neutering of its powers and status. Just like with Brexit, they will be looking to take back control.

The next year or so are absolutely critical to our country. Given that a consensual referendum is not happening, I really hope the indy eadership have a plan B route to independence sorted............or we're doomed.

The truth is that the Scottish Parliament don't really have the adequate powers to do their job most effectively. The commission set up by Lord Smith in the aftermath of the 2014 vote was a complete clusterfuck and one of the big disappointments of the SNP leadership I had was that they didn't really come out forcefully about it, perhaps as a strategy of trying to set themselves up as a constructive partner with Labour in 2015. To make the most of devolution, the parliament really needs to understand the economy by having the correct access to data, to have a mechanism to combat against underspend with multi-year budgets (which is really hard with the way the block grant is currently allocated) and to have a collection of tax powers that are actually consistent and enforceable (i.e. people say income tax is devolved to Scotland - it isn't, there's just some fiddling with the bands allowed).

My big worry is in the face of that, it's going to be increasingly difficult to govern at Holyrood and that's what Westminster are backing on. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the independence vote is going to die but they might think that the 'now is not the time' spiel could be effective until about 2026 (consent has pretty much been ruled out for the next parliamentary term at Westminster too - they'd then insist on a mandate required in the next Holyrood election) and then by that point, they'd hope that the SNP have struggled to sustain the campaign and fail to win a majority indy vote in parliament (which could easily happen with a couple of percent swing).

The only way I see any movement in the next few years is maybe if Boris somehow ends up in a position where he pursues domestic constitutional change if he returns a sizeable majority and gets the opportunity for a good gerrymandering session. I really don't think he gives a f**k and in principle, I think he'd be happy enough to get rid of the Scottish seats and the more annoying Scottish MPs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The truth is that the Scottish Parliament don't really have the adequate powers to do their job most effectively. The commission set up by Lord Smith in the aftermath of the 2014 vote was a complete clusterfuck and one of the big disappointments of the SNP leadership I had was that they didn't really come out forcefully about it, perhaps as a strategy of trying to set themselves up as a constructive partner with Labour in 2015. To make the most of devolution, the parliament really needs to understand the economy by having the correct access to data, to have a mechanism to combat against underspend with multi-year budgets (which is really hard with the way the block grant is currently allocated) and to have a collection of tax powers that are actually consistent and enforceable (i.e. people say income tax is devolved to Scotland - it isn't, there's just some fiddling with the bands allowed).
My big worry is in the face of that, it's going to be increasingly difficult to govern at Holyrood and that's what Westminster are backing on. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the independence vote is going to die but they might think that the 'now is not the time' spiel could be effective until about 2026 (consent has pretty much been ruled out for the next parliamentary term at Westminster too - they'd then insist on a mandate required in the next Holyrood election) and then by that point, they'd hope that the SNP have struggled to sustain the campaign and fail to win a majority indy vote in parliament (which could easily happen with a couple of percent swing).
The only way I see any movement in the next few years is maybe if Boris somehow ends up in a position where he pursues domestic constitutional change if he returns a sizeable majority and gets the opportunity for a good gerrymandering session. I really don't think he gives a f**k and in principle, I think he'd be happy enough to get rid of the Scottish seats and the more annoying Scottish MPs.
Boris Johnson, pioneer and founder of Scottish Independence.

I'd take it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Boris Johnson, pioneer and founder of Scottish Independence.

I'd take it.

 

Just heard on BBC News 24 that BJ has given himself an extra title - as well as PM he is now officially Minister for the Union.

That can only help us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Just heard on BBC News 24 that BJ has given himself an extra title - as well as PM he is now officially Minister for the Union.

That can only help us.

The whole "Awesome Foursome" thing is fucking nauseating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Just heard on BBC News 24 that BJ has given himself an extra title - as well as PM he is now officially Minister for the Union.

That can only help us.

Which union? The one he hates because it takes control away from members or the one he loves because it takes control away from members?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, harry94 said:

The truth is that the Scottish Parliament don't really have the adequate powers to do their job most effectively. The commission set up by Lord Smith in the aftermath of the 2014 vote was a complete clusterfuck and one of the big disappointments of the SNP leadership I had was that they didn't really come out forcefully about it, perhaps as a strategy of trying to set themselves up as a constructive partner with Labour in 2015. To make the most of devolution, the parliament really needs to understand the economy by having the correct access to data, to have a mechanism to combat against underspend with multi-year budgets (which is really hard with the way the block grant is currently allocated) and to have a collection of tax powers that are actually consistent and enforceable (i.e. people say income tax is devolved to Scotland - it isn't, there's just some fiddling with the bands allowed).

My big worry is in the face of that, it's going to be increasingly difficult to govern at Holyrood and that's what Westminster are backing on. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the independence vote is going to die but they might think that the 'now is not the time' spiel could be effective until about 2026 (consent has pretty much been ruled out for the next parliamentary term at Westminster too - they'd then insist on a mandate required in the next Holyrood election) and then by that point, they'd hope that the SNP have struggled to sustain the campaign and fail to win a majority indy vote in parliament (which could easily happen with a couple of percent swing).

The only way I see any movement in the next few years is maybe if Boris somehow ends up in a position where he pursues domestic constitutional change if he returns a sizeable majority and gets the opportunity for a good gerrymandering session. I really don't think he gives a f**k and in principle, I think he'd be happy enough to get rid of the Scottish seats and the more annoying Scottish MPs.

This is true until the final paragraph. They will fight with everything they've got until the very last second to hold onto Scotland as they badly need our resources. There will never be a time when any UK govt is happy to let us go. I think some still don't understand in UK terms we are the goose that laid the golden egg.

Devolution was set up to fail, the Smith commission also, so they can blame the Scottish government for it and decrease support for independence. That is also why they refuse to allow drug treatment and consumption rooms even though they accept they are effective in reducing drug deaths. They want Scots dying of drugs as it's another thing they can blame the Scottish government for and thus reduce support for independence.

It's almost impossible to overstate the importance to the UK of keeping Scotland. Without us they have virtually nothing except financial wizardry and a house of cards. Everything they are going to need in the future, food land above sea level water oil gas clean energy, we have in abundance and they have virtually none of.

Edited by Kuro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kuro said:

This is true until the final paragraph. They will fight with everything they've got until the very last second to hold into Scotland as they badly need our resources. There will never be a time when any UK give us happy to let us go. I think some still don't understand in UK terms we are the goose that paid the golden egg.

Devolution was set up to fail, the Smith commission also, so they can blame the Scottish government for it and decrease support for independence. That is also why they refuse to allow drug treatment and consumption rooms even though they accept they are effective in reducing drug deaths. They want Scots dying of drugs as it's another thing they can blame the Scottish government for and this reduce support for independence.

It's almost impossible to overstate the importance to the UK of keeping Scotland. Without us they have virtually nothing except financial wizardry and a house of cards. Everything they are going to need in the future, food land above sea level water oil gas clean energy, we have in abundance and they have virtually none of.

Wonder if this old chestnut will be brought out again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13765279

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ross. said:

The whole "Awesome Foursome" thing is fucking nauseating.

Especially as "awe" doesn't even rhyme with "four".

It's the worst example I've seen since one of my son's textbooks suggested "saw" rhymes with "door"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, I'm Brian said:

Wonder if this old chestnut will be brought out again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13765279

 

Without question that's part of the long term plan. And we'll have to pay for.it too.

I've said it before, soon we'll either be selling England water or paying to give it to.them.

Edited by Kuro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We’re never getting independence. The clusterfuck that is Brexit will put most folk off any constitutional change for decades

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ross. said:

The whole "Awesome Foursome" thing is fucking nauseating.

Does anyone know where this phrase recently originated from?  I heard it for the first time within the past 2 weeks, when a woman from Inverness said it on LBC radio.  Genuinely shuddered when I heard it and hoped that it was a one off phrase the caller made up.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Daydream said:

We’re never getting independence. The clusterfuck that is Brexit will put most folk off any constitutional change for decades emoji29.png

Because making peoples lives horrendously bad always results in the status quo? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stinky Bone said:

Does anyone know where this phrase recently originated from?  I heard it for the first time within the past 2 weeks, when a woman from Inverness said it on LBC radio.  Genuinely shuddered when I heard it and hoped that it was a one off phrase the caller made up.  

First I heard it was from Ross Thomson about a fortnight ago also. He attributed it to Boris. Clearly some PR firm somewhere has come up with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know where this phrase recently originated from?  I heard it for the first time within the past 2 weeks, when a woman from Inverness said it on LBC radio.  Genuinely shuddered when I heard it and hoped that it was a one off phrase the caller made up.  

 

I remember it (or something like it) from a good few years ago being used to describe either our Olympic rowers (Sir Steve) or an Aussie team (when said with an Australian accent, it sounds closer to foursome)

 

 

ETA - scratch that. It was the oarsome foursome.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oarsome_Foursome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...