BFTD Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I'm enjoying this "New Scotland" stuff, although the various existing New Scotlands might sue, which would be humiliating. Still beats being "The Scotland", though. Would we still be the same Scotland after independence, or a continuation of the original Scotland (1707), like Accrington Stanley? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 If we don't get an acceptable deal with rUK, does that mean that we need to have a further referendum? It appears that all the discussions around rUK and the EU is predicated on deals being made. Given Nicola's wish to be treated as an equal nation, what happens if rUK say " You want to be treated equally then take your 1/4 share of the current UK debt". Totally unacceptable but does it invalidate the referendum result on the basis that nobody currently voting for independence on the expectation of this outcome. Or does this stuff only matter when you lose a referendum? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, strichener said: If we don't get an acceptable deal with rUK, does that mean that we need to have a further referendum? It appears that all the discussions around rUK and the EU is predicated on deals being made. Given Nicola's wish to be treated as an equal nation, what happens if rUK say " You want to be treated equally then take your 1/4 share of the current UK debt". Totally unacceptable but does it invalidate the referendum result on the basis that nobody currently voting for independence on the expectation of this outcome. Or does this stuff only matter when you lose a referendum? Are you drunk? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, Granny Danger said: Are you drunk? Never. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, strichener said: If we don't get an acceptable deal with rUK, does that mean that we need to have a further referendum? It appears that all the discussions around rUK and the EU is predicated on deals being made. Given Nicola's wish to be treated as an equal nation, what happens if rUK say " You want to be treated equally then take your 1/4 share of the current UK debt". Totally unacceptable but does it invalidate the referendum result on the basis that nobody currently voting for independence on the expectation of this outcome. Or does this stuff only matter when you lose a referendum? If we don't get an acceptable deal (which is completely implausible but I'll humour you) then we leave the UK without a deal. And no debt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Superb bit of bait there from Kincy. Wondering if anyone will bite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, strichener said: If we don't get an acceptable deal with rUK, does that mean that we need to have a further referendum? It appears that all the discussions around rUK and the EU is predicated on deals being made. Given Nicola's wish to be treated as an equal nation, what happens if rUK say " You want to be treated equally then take your 1/4 share of the current UK debt". Totally unacceptable but does it invalidate the referendum result on the basis that nobody currently voting for independence on the expectation of this outcome. Or does this stuff only matter when you lose a referendum? Entirely sensible post and these points are the ones I'll make if I move to Glasgow before any poll. The whole Brexit debacle shows the importance of knowing the likely shape of a deal before having a vote and, in the case of Continuity Scotland ( @BigFatTabbyDave), going to the electorate with heads of agreement with rUK and the EU will be the difference between No and Yes. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 51 minutes ago, strichener said: If we don't get an acceptable deal with rUK, does that mean that we need to have a further referendum? It appears that all the discussions around rUK and the EU is predicated on deals being made. Given Nicola's wish to be treated as an equal nation, what happens if rUK say " You want to be treated equally then take your 1/4 share of the current UK debt". Totally unacceptable but does it invalidate the referendum result on the basis that nobody currently voting for independence on the expectation of this outcome. Or does this stuff only matter when you lose a referendum? We either leave the UK with a deal that's good for Scotland, or we leave with no deal and no debt. Scotland holds no legal liability over any share of the UK National debt. Taking on a share of the debt would be by agreement, not legal enforcement. So not really in the anglos best interests to try and screw us over in negotiations. But you already knew that. You just don't like it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: we leave the UK without a deal. And no debt. 4 minutes ago, BawWatchin said: we leave with no deal and no debt. Funny how these Yessers are morphing in to JRM. Birds of a feather, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said: Funny how these Yessers are morphing in to JRM. Birds of a feather, eh? Merely explaining the facts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 We either leave the UK with a deal that's good for Scotland, or we leave with no deal and no debt. Scotland holds no legal liability over any share of the UK National debt. Taking on a share of the debt would be by agreement, not legal enforcement. So not really in the anglos best interests to try and screw us over in negotiations. But you already knew that. You just don't like it.Or the Scottish people demand we stay part of Britain yet again, even though you just don’t like that. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mastermind said: Or the Scottish people demand we stay part of Britain yet again, even though you just don’t like that. Why would people who have voted for independence do that? And how? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Whit a load of slavering pish is coming out of the mooth of our resident submissionists this evening. As a supporter of independence there is nothing I would like better than to have a fully negotiated deal worked out and ready to put to the electorate pre referendum. One wee obstacle though. The UK government. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Whit a load of slavering pish is coming out of the mooth of our resident submissionists this evening. As a supporter of independence there is nothing I would like better than to have a fully negotiated deal worked out and ready to put to the electorate pre referendum. One wee obstacle though. The UK government. Then it's simple. Go to a Brexit-fatigued electorate with no divorce agreement with rUK and no pre-nup with The EU and see what the outcome is. Geo Sq will, again, be awash with Union Flags. I'm actually trying to help you here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: Then it's simple. Go to a Brexit-fatigued electorate with no divorce agreement with rUK and no pre-nup with The EU and see what the outcome is. Geo Sq will, again, be awash with Union Flags. I'm actually trying to help you here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 hours ago, MixuFixit said: Half of me thinks we should be brutally honest about how long it might take and half of me wants us to sink lower than better together and just lie lie lie to victory. I think we should do whatever it takes. I don't care what form that takes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I will try and answer your question to the best of my knowledge. When Scotland becomes Independent, we will have negotiated a deal with the ruk. I guess that part of that deal will involve free trade, the same as we already have with the ruk. So there will be no hard border at this point. During the extremely short process of joining the EU, which as an Independent nation we can decide whether or not to, we would probably have some sort of border. When we are Independent, I would like to rejoin the EU and have no borders with Europe. If we have to have a hard border with the ruk, then I will not worry too much because we have a whole continent called Europe to trade with. I understand that we do most of our trade with ruk (depending on how accurate some information is) and this would continue. The ruk would still trade with us because we have so much to give them, the same stuff they already take for granted. I think that once the assets and liabilities of the uk are sorted out, then Scotland will be in profit from day one. This answer is the first time I've ever questioned my support for our independence. Deluded if you think this is a win 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Do I have to provide links to prove an already debunked myth? It is common knowledge that Scotland will be accepted back into the EU.And? How does that solve a border with England? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Scotland will obviously become part of eu if we desire. Demented to suggest otherwiseHow does that work with a hard brexit uk?If you can't answer in a quick two sentences, don't bother calling indyref 2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I accept that entirely. BUT you secessionists have got to stop saying that you'll just fall easily in to the EU. The choice is simple: Commit to a timetable or stop trying to fool people. Edit: The driver for this second referendum centres around accession to The EU. I sympathise with this. BUT the electorate need more than just, "It will be easy" and only a fool would disagree.If you don't think Scotland can be part of eu within a reasonable period then were as well becoming part of Wales. An irrelevant piece of shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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