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When will indyref2 happen?

Indyref2  

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2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


Congratulations on googling things, but thats a swing and a miss.

I can't remember, do we get a veto in WM as part of the UK?  

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25 minutes ago, strichener said:

Article 16 of the Treaty of the European Union quite clearly lays out the basis for voting that means we would not be an equal to any of the countries that you have listed.

I would much rather have 12 or 13 Scottish MEP's representing me in the EU than zero UK MEP's

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A lad in work today was speaking a power of shite. I wouldn't say he is an idiot in general so I was surprised by the shit he was saying.

It was just all the usual tabloid nonsense. He started off by saying he hates Sturgeon and the SNP. I asked why and he said because they want another referendum. No idea why that's reason to hate them. He said it was all because they didn't get their way and they're all just crying about it. How sad to see such an issue reduced to 'yoor pyur ragin an greetin!'.

The tabloid favourites of "She should shut up and get on with it!", Just accept it!", "Obsessed with it!", "Get on with the day job!" etc were rolled out. Nothing I said, no counter arguments, registered and he stuck rigidly to those same wee tabloid soundbites. Not once did he have any meaningful contribution about it. He didn't have any concerns or arguments against independence; just the same circular garbage about greeting and getting on with it.

 

It's so sad that so many people have been manipulated by the media (and the folk pulling their strings) to reduce issues to such bullshit as "You're just greeting!" and similar statements, and to trot out the same wee meaningless and petty statements and not look in to things for themselves. It's even sadder that it's so easy to do so. Saying you hate Sturgeon because she said she wants another referendum is comically dumb. These folk might as well just get a daily email telling them what to think about things.

I've heard some concerns from No voters that I think are at least sensible and can see why they're concerned about them, and there are always things people want clarified about such a big issue, but I can't and don't take seriously fools who regurgitate right wing media pish and who can't think for themselves.

Edited by DA Baracus

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Anyway, from now on I'm simply not going to discuss it with folk. I'm going to avoid all coverage, as much as I can, as well.

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Just now, DA Baracus said:

A lad in work today was speaking a power of shite. I wouldn't say he is an idiot in general so I was surprised by the shit he was saying.

It was just all the usual tabloid nonsense.

 

 

The bottom part of DA's post is going to be the problem in the next vote, the same questions are going to be flung around, issues like currency, borders,pensions etc..... 

 

I know people will point out some of the issues i mentioned above can be answered by white papers the government have released however  a large proportion of voters will not read these things and will go only with what their morning papers or news bulletins on the tele inform them, fixing that will put YES on a better footing than the last time.

 

I hope YES can do it whenever the vote comes but i think its still a bit too early to call it, its all down to what happens with Brexit, if a trade deal is struck then i think a YES vote will look less likely, if its a no deal and you have right wingers in charge down south  i think we have a really good chance.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Killie87

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10 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:
10 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

I'm just stress testing your points as they'll be the kinds of things undecideds will worry about. You're trying to convince the more risk averse part of the population more than ever this time.

You mean the shitebags that will lap up everything the state owned media throw at them?

Shitebags or not we need ~600,000 of them to change their minds...

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8 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:
9 hours ago, DA Baracus said:
Anyway, from now on I'm simply not going to discuss it with folk. I'm going to avoid all coverage, as much as I can, as well.

Was he a Rangers fan?

No

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26 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Shitebags or not we need ~600,000 of them to change their minds...

Yup. Albeit EU nationals voted 65/35 against last time, either that number will push 90% Yes next time or they'll be disenfranchised entirely. Either way it's a net gain for Yes of something like 150,000 votes already.

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7 minutes ago, renton said:

Yup. Albeit EU nationals voted 65/35 against last time, either that number will push 90% Yes next time or they'll be disenfranchised entirely. Either way it's a net gain for Yes of something like 150,000 votes already.

I know 5 2014 No voters who are no longer No.

3 changed to Yes and 2 emigrated.

2 folk actually voted No and left the country 4 months later never to return.

Anyway..... what I will enjoy this time is I no longer have to hear that people are voting No because "I hate Alex Salmond"

What I will hate is hearing these same people tell me they're voting No because they hate Nicola Sturgeon.

If I was cynical I'd think they don't have the ability to think for themselves.

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When those who say they "hate Alex Salmond" or "hate Nicola Sturgeon" they exhibit an irrational fear of the change these politicians represent to their closed mindset. Having been brought up with such unimpeachable sources of "news" from the likes of the BBC and every newspaper in the UK they cannot and will not accept any other opinions outwith that which has been constantly fed to them. To think for themselves is an alien concept and personally I would not waste time debating independence with any of them.

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A lad in work today was speaking a power of shite. I wouldn't say he is an idiot in general so I was surprised by the shit he was saying.
It was just all the usual tabloid nonsense. He started off by saying he hates Sturgeon and the SNP. I asked why and he said because they want another referendum. No idea why that's reason to hate them. He said it was all because they didn't get their way and they're all just crying about it. How sad to see such an issue reduced to 'yoor pyur ragin an greetin!'.
The tabloid favourites of "She should shut up and get on with it!", Just accept it!", "Obsessed with it!", "Get on with the day job!" etc were rolled out. Nothing I said, no counter arguments, registered and he stuck rigidly to those same wee tabloid soundbites. Not once did he have any meaningful contribution about it. He didn't have any concerns or arguments against independence; just the same circular garbage about greeting and getting on with it.
 
It's so sad that so many people have been manipulated by the media (and the folk pulling their strings) to reduce issues to such bullshit as "You're just greeting!" and similar statements, and to trot out the same wee meaningless and petty statements and not look in to things for themselves. It's even sadder that it's so easy to do so. Saying you hate Sturgeon because she said she wants another referendum is comically dumb. These folk might as well just get a daily email telling them what to think about things.
I've heard some concerns from No voters that I think are at least sensible and can see why they're concerned about them, and there are always things people want clarified about such a big issue, but I can't and don't take seriously fools who regurgitate right wing media pish and who can't think for themselves.

I had a similar exchange with my mother yesterday.
She even made a “boak” sound when Sturgeon appeared on the news.
Usual tropes of “we said no in 2014” “day job” “nhs” “police Scotland” etc.
When I questioned her about certain statistics comparing Scotland to rUK her retort was that Westminster are just as bad......... BUT they’ve got Brexit to deal with so it’s somehow excusable.
Not one coherent point in the entire exchange (from her),
Sometimes I wish I was orphaned!

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12 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Oh dear, we may not have same numbers of MEPs but we would have a veto on anything that doesn't suit. Currently we are at the mercy of England.

 

Veto on anything. :1eye

12 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

I would much rather have 12 or 13 Scottish MEP's representing me in the EU than zero UK MEP's

You agree than that it will not be an equal voice with Spain, France and Germany.  You could have just said as much.

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When those who say they "hate Alex Salmond" or "hate Nicola Sturgeon" they exhibit an irrational fear of the change these politicians represent to their closed mindset. Having been brought up with such unimpeachable sources of "news" from the likes of the BBC and every newspaper in the UK they cannot and will not accept any other opinions outwith that which has been constantly fed to them. To think for themselves is an alien concept and personally I would not waste time debating independence with any of them.
As DA says when you challenge these folks they can't give a rational explanation - it's all the soundbites.

My favourite is then to completely undermine the soundbites - especially the "getting on with day job" shite.

Just show them the SNP and Tory/Labour publicity from the last election and get them to count the number of times referendum is mentioned in each - no surprise to us who is obsessed with it.

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Quite why Scots would want to continue to be governed by England and Northern Ireland is beyond me.

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Last night whilst talking to my dad he came out with “they’re deliberately trying to Make the UK Look bad.”

Perhaps the UK is incompetent and the SNP are doing the day job well.

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2 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

Shitebags or not we need ~600,000 of them to change their minds...

Erm no - given the margin of votes was 400,000 you only need 200,000 people to change their minds. And demographics will already do much of the heavy lifting in the period between 2014 and 2021 as the baby boomer Britnats f**k off in droves.

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20 minutes ago, virginton said:

Erm no - given the margin of votes was 400,000 you only need 200,000 people to change their minds. And demographics will already do much of the heavy lifting in the period between 2014 and 2021 as the baby boomer Britnats f**k off in droves.

Yeah, but who wants to try and get by with a 50% + 1 result now? There is certainly a minimum result possible but reasonably we would need a bigger margin to put it beyond challenge at the ballot box.

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