When will indyref2 happen?

[Jeff Venom]

The born to rule types contrive every aspect of their perceived power, even their stance. Sad.

[JamieThomas]

Fair play to Phil, after seemingly an eternity of making us suffer his High Flying Birds phase, he nips right in there with a Wonderwall to keep the punters happy.

[BawWatchin]

[BawWatchin]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Anyone else have a better idea about how to force another referendum when all the Tory candidates are saying No?

How about, we don't need to "force" one, as it's our own democratic right to have one?

Unelected tories in Scotland saying NO or people we can't possibly reject at Westminster saying NO isn't going to stop it from happening.

I can see the European courts getting involved.

[doulikefish]

Nice one phil keep up the good work after your standards had dropped

[John Lambies Doos]

How fucking dare Javid come out with this. f**k him and his party...
Get the f**k out now Scotland

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

10 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

How fucking dare Javid come out with this. f**k him and his party...
Get the f**k out now Scotland

Calm down. Be patient. It will happen. 

[Donathan]

32 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

How about, we don't need to "force" one, as it's our own democratic right to have one?

Unelected tories in Scotland saying NO or people we can't possibly reject at Westminster saying NO isn't going to stop it from happening.

I can see the European courts getting involved.

 

 

Just like they were "involved" with the wildcat referendum in Catalonia?

 

What I expect to actually happen is Sturgeon will apply for a section 30 and Boris or whoever the next PM is will say no and then the SNP and Greens make it a focal point of the 2021 elections (this may be the point where we have an actual pact with the SNP only running for constituencies and endorsing a Greens vote on the list) to try and elect a big majority of nationalist MSPs. At this point (if the nationalists are successful in 2021) there will be too much pressure on WM to allow a referendum for them to block it again. If they still continue to do so then the nuclear option would be for the SNP government to resign en masse and trigger a snap election where they'd run on a UDI platform where the idea is that an SNP/Green government would just declare independence without a referendum.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Donathan

[welshbairn]

There's likely to be a Westminster Election before Holyrood resulting in a hung Parliament. Side with whoever is prepared to sign Section 30, even if it's the Tories. I thought the SNP could have been more brutal with their leverage over May and her deal.

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

There's likely to be a Westminster Election before Holyrood resulting in a hung Parliament. Side with whoever is prepared to sign Section 30, even if it's the Tories. I thought the SNP could have been more brutal with their leverage over May and her deal.

 

Probably agree with this. The whole "backing Labour because Scotland rejected the Tories" thing doesn't really fly when Labour are now every bit as unpopular as the Conservatives in Scotland, and are in fact even more unpopular than them based on the last few elections.

[Crùbag]

29 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

 

Just like they were "involved" with the wildcat referendum in Catalonia?

 

What I expect to actually happen is Sturgeon will apply for a section 30 and Boris or whoever the next PM is will say no and then the SNP and Greens make it a focal point of the 2021 elections (this may be the point where we have an actual pact with the SNP only running for constituencies and endorsing a Greens vote on the list) to try and elect a big majority of nationalist MSPs. At this point (if the nationalists are successful in 2021) there will be too much pressure on WM to allow a referendum for them to block it again. If they still continue to do so then the nuclear option would be for the SNP government to resign en masse and trigger a snap election where they'd run on a UDI platform where the idea is that an SNP/Green government would just declare independence without a referendum.

AGAIK, Scot Gov is well within its rights to hold an advisory referendum. Would be interesting to see WM try and negate the possibly positive result as the Brexit ref was also just 'advisory' and not legally binding.

[Crùbag]

Cracker of a headline.

[lichtgilphead]

[Frank Grimes]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

 

 

Just like they were "involved" with the wildcat referendum in Catalonia?

 

What I expect to actually happen is Sturgeon will apply for a section 30 and Boris or whoever the next PM is will say no and then the SNP and Greens make it a focal point of the 2021 elections (this may be the point where we have an actual pact with the SNP only running for constituencies and endorsing a Greens vote on the list) to try and elect a big majority of nationalist MSPs. At this point (if the nationalists are successful in 2021) there will be too much pressure on WM to allow a referendum for them to block it again. If they still continue to do so then the nuclear option would be for the SNP government to resign en masse and trigger a snap election where they'd run on a UDI platform where the idea is that an SNP/Green government would just declare independence without a referendum.

If that’s the case why wait until 2021 for the next scheduled election?

Dissolve parliament and have snap election with another cast iron mandate that a pro Indy majority means indyref 

Although there is an argument that doesn’t change the position we are already in, all it does is reinforce it although the Tory c***s can still say No

Can’t see even moderate Yes supporters wanting to wait until 2021

I certainly don’t 

Actually sickens me we need their permission 

 

[Colkitto]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

So does anyone have a feel for how this will play out if nobody is going to allow IndyRef2?

If Sturgeon pushes ahead with this legislation and pressures for IndyRef2 late next year, I think she knows it won't be allowed.

She is then setup to campaign for the 2021 Holyrood elections  6 months later, specifically on an IndyRef2 manifesto and is hoping that a massive mandate from the Scottish electorate will make people sit up and take notice.

I can't think of another reason why she should do this now.

Anyone else have a better idea about how to force another referendum when all the Tory candidates are saying No?

The Unionists are playing right into the SNP's hands. The best chance for the No side to win is agreeing to an indyref2 now.

People like Javid and the rest don't understand Scotland. As soon as this becomes official and the  Tory Westminster government says No, it's game over.

Grievance politics will take over everything. You can already feel the anger and that's just a couple of Tory hopefuls saying No. 

Ruth and her Westminster colleagues  have completely miscalculated the mood of the country  over this and it won't end well for them.  

Edited May 30, 2019 by Colkitto

[Kuro]

11 hours ago, renton said:

Some PR arsehole told them it projected power and authority. Instead they end up recreating that scene from Blackadder III

Poltergeist you mean.

[Colkitto]

[GiGi]

 

1 hour ago, Colkitto said:

Impressive to make what is likely a very expensive suit look like a 2-piece-for-£99 Burtons effort from Javid there. 

'My first job interview' stuff.

[BawWatchin]

3 hours ago, GiGi said:

 

Impressive to make what is likely a very expensive suit look like a 2-piece-for-£99 Burtons effort from Javid there. 

'My first job interview' stuff.

Should have went to Slaters.

[Colkitto]

3 hours ago, GiGi said:

 

Impressive to make what is likely a very expensive suit look like a 2-piece-for-£99 Burtons effort from Javid there. 

'My first job interview' stuff.

Looks like a Matalan effort. £10 for the trousers and £15 for the jaiket.