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When will indyref2 happen?

Indyref2  

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43 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

It's all very well saying "here we go", "bring it on" etc but the ground work for all us Yes voters starts now. It's all very well debating on social media about which ones better - Scotland or Westminster - but if we just do that we'll end up with the same result. As Yes voters we are always going to be up against it. The majority of politicians are against us and most of the media are against us. We have to actively go out and change peoples opinions because they're only getting their news from these biased media outlets.

If we really want this we have to actually get out there and change people's minds.

This is about the only sensible post on the last 4 pages (it'll probably be 5 by the time I get this posted).

If I were still living in Scotland, and if I were a "No" voter I'd need better arguments than "shitebag", "Quisling", "craven",  "cap doffer" etc, which seems to be the mo of most of the posters on here. And not forgetting "seething", that'll really convince the waverers/fence sitters/don't knows and soft nos.

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39 minutes ago, Afro said:

My gut feeling is that it's been called too soon - surely, calling one after Brexit would make it a slam dunk, no? Whilst I'd personally vote Yes again, I can't help but feel a lot of people across the Yes/No/Don't Know spectrum won't want more uncertainty.

Of course, looking at it from another angle, calling it before the UK leaves the EU would probably mean some sort of succession deal is in place for Scotland, hence the decision to hold it before Brexit?

If the idea is to keep Scotland in the EU there's not much point in waiting until it's been dragged out before you have a referendum.

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2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

This is about the only sensible post on the last 4 pages (it'll probably be 5 by the time I get this posted).

If I were still living in Scotland, and if I were a "No" voter I'd need better arguments than "shitebag", "Quisling", "craven",  "cap doffer" etc, which seems to be the mo of most of the posters on here. And not forgetting "seething", that'll really convince the waverers/fence sitters/don't knows and soft nos.

^^^SEETHING!

Spoiler

Only joking. I'm with you on this one.

 

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4 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

We've done it far too early, we'll lose with about 44%

I've some sympathy with the "too soon" argument, but let's face it, if Scots won't vote for statehood after the contempt shown over the last couple of years (and with Tory rule for the forseeable), then it will always be a backwater northern region of England.

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What do you think the currency option will be this time? I voted yes last time despite my concerns over the currency union and I know a few folk who own their own business who voted No due to the perceived weakness of that plan.

Do you think there needs to be something different or does the currency union just need to be explained more clearly?

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This is about the only sensible post on the last 4 pages (it'll probably be 5 by the time I get this posted).
If I were still living in Scotland, and if I were a "No" voter I'd need better arguments than "shitebag", "Quisling", "craven",  "cap doffer" etc, which seems to be the mo of most of the posters on here. And not forgetting "seething", that'll really convince the waverers/fence sitters/don't knows and soft nos.


People act differently in real life though.

Funnily enough I'm not going up to the architects I've already spoke about with a Greggy Wallace mask on giving it the SEETHING chat to them.

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There's been a lot of talk about timing and I've always taken the position that we should favour stability and take time for another referendum though. Recently though, I've started to change my mind on this.

I spend a lot of time with academics who were previously very hostile towards independence as generally, it introduced a huge deal of uncertainty in their work an as a result, their whole lives. This time though, that's changed quite considerably. The Scottish Government are now the leaders and can protect quite a lot of people who have had this uncertainty imposed on them from the UK government. There now seems to be the attitude that Scotland is a much more progressive place and it's government are more willing to provide inward investment and protect it's economy. I get the impression that with Westminster having an unchecked increasingly right wing majority who seem to be happy to promote any batshit crazy idea (like maybe walking away with nothing from negotiations) - more people will at the very least be willing to consider these arguments.

I'm not sure if this is indeed accurate across the board and does equate to a good chance of success but this is a time period where we've got a government who aren't working in our strategic interests and Sturgeon can step up to this and make decisions which do provide protection to a lot of people. In addition to this, we're seeing our economy slump along slowly and drastically need to make changes to mitigate against the job losses in North Sea Oil (I think I saw 120k last year) and what seems to be a slow down of productivity. We've also got an ageing population which needs a larger workforce to sustain it and no support to mitigate against this has come from Westminster (despite them throwing this stat in our face with some sort of pride last time round).

The UK has made a decision which is, by expert accounts, going to have a detrimental impact on us and accepting that isn't going to magically improve things any time soon. We've got a European Union who are very sympathetic to us and as an independent nation in the EU, there's the opportunity to drive up our exports with government intervention.

I get that there are problems with 'uncertainty' but the certainty we do have is that nothing is being done to take on the unique challenges we face and things are likely to get worse. With that in perspective, the argument to take control of that situation now is very striking.

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And in Northern Ireland - I'm listening to Radio Ulster - the question of the day :

Is burning tyres culture?

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She's called it too soon. An Autumn 2018/Spring 2019 referendum doesn't stop Scotland, even if only temporarily, being dragged out of the EU against its will. There's no chance in hell secession proceedings would take less than 6 months. She should have waited until it happened, for the actual impact of Brexit to hit home, then seek a mandate on that basis. 2020 or 2021.

Yes will lose a referendum held within the Brexit window.

Edited by Ad Lib

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1 minute ago, Kejan said:

And in Northern Ireland - I'm listening to Radio Ulster - the question of the day :

Is burning tyres culture?

No

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7 minutes ago, Silvio said:

What do you think the currency option will be this time? I voted yes last time despite my concerns over the currency union and I know a few folk who own their own business who voted No due to the perceived weakness of that plan.

Do you think there needs to be something different or does the currency union just need to be explained more clearly?

Probably needs to be something different this time, maybe a Scottish currency pegged to the pound.

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Agree that it's largely going to be a complete waste of time debating on forums /social media.

The only way to win is to get out there and convince people on an individual basis. Online stuff is just a prejudice-confirming echo chamber of no significance whatever.

I know a few folk who think it's been called too early but the reality is, after Brexit, there was never going to be an ideal time. Sturgeon has caught the UK government completely flat footed and I am sure has plans well advanced to take indyref forward quickly and to a clear set of objectives.

If it's NO again then...Scotland will quickly become a historical name on a map of a unitary UK. Now or never, folks.

 

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BlueRob's seethe alone is worth it.
Fucking 'MON EN!!!!


Your having a laugh Fide. 'Seethe' is it?
Enough for me to self impose a ban on P&B and a pathetic plea to the Board Mods, then to crawl back under a new username? I think not.
No sane person could possibly reach such a level of 'Seethe' on a f*ckin Internet forum could they?

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Is this #Indyref2 or #ScotRef?

I've noticed Yoons seem to be going for the former and Nats for the latter. Wonder why.

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1 minute ago, RedRob72 said:

 

 


Your having a laugh Fide. 'Seethe' is it?
Enough for me to self impose a ban on P&B and a pathetic plea to the Board Mods, then to crawl back under a new username? I think not.
No sane person could possibly reach such a level of 'Seethe' on a f*ckin Internet forum could they?

 

Your salty, salty tears of rage are quite delicious.

The mask, she slips.

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I wonder how the pound will fare with both indyref2 called and Article 50 triggered. Both, of course, are the result of the economically illiterate Tories.

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