Ad Lib Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: I think there's much more chance of a unanimous agreement to extend the talks than there is to get a treaty ratified unanimously in 2 years. But I think both of those things are less likely than that time runs out without agreement to extend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyerTon Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Bookies on the link offering 1/2 for independence and 6/4 for a no vote. http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/scottish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=451400 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ad Lib said: But I think both of those things are less likely than that time runs out without agreement to extend. If we wait until after a hard brexit, or a treaty, people will have had enough of uncertainty and political turmoil, and will vote no imo. I think Sturgeon's timing is spot on, we should have a fair idea what Brexit will entail by then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ferrino Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Looking forward to them trying to run a "better together" campaign just as all the shit from Brexit is flying around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Wonder how long it will take for H_B to start tone trolling on here again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The campaigning went on too long last time. People already know what they are going to choose. Just jump straight to the vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) I now feel ready to cast my vote in the poll this thread was created for. I'll go with "Before 2020" please. Edited March 13, 2017 by Gordon EF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, Ned Nederlander said: His point is valid - I stated I was a soft 'No' on here and was rather quickly called a shitebag (or something like that I can't be arsed going back to check) It's certainly not an effective method of convincing people to vote your way. But, but, but no no voters read this/no no voters are going to be influenced by this (delete according to preference) so we can carry on calling people names and not putting forward any rational arguments. Is the debate on other forums as petty and childish? I know it is received wisdom that "no" voters are old folk who can't switch on a computer let alone navigate round the internet, but I think that's a facile stereotype, so if other forums (fora?) are as shouty as this one, your bolded point stands, imo. Anyway, it will all play itself out, and we look forward to the cut and thrust of informed debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: But, but, but no no voters read this/no no voters are going to be influenced by this (delete according to preference) so we can carry on calling people names and not putting forward any rational arguments. Is the debate on other forums as petty and childish? I know it is received wisdom that "no" voters are old folk who can't switch on a computer let alone navigate round the internet, but I think that's a facile stereotype, so if other forums (fora?) are as shouty as this one, your bolded point stands, imo. Anyway, it will all play itself out, and we look forward to the cut and thrust of informed debate. Shut it gimp boy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 All the scaremongering has begun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Just now, Jacksgranda said: But, but, but no no voters read this/no no voters are going to be influenced by this (delete according to preference) so we can carry on calling people names and not putting forward any rational arguments. Is the debate on other forums as petty and childish? I know it is received wisdom that "no" voters are old folk who can't switch on a computer let alone navigate round the internet, but I think that's a facile stereotype, so if other forums (fora?) are as shouty as this one, your bolded point stands, imo. Anyway, it will all play itself out, and we look forward to the cut and thrust of informed debate. Nobody's going to deny that there is a hell of a lot of name-calling and shite being flung back and forward. And you have a point. Both sides may be as bad as each other but Yes is the side who need to convince, and a more conciliatory approach with soft No's will certainly be more effective than name calling. But you'll have found plenty of people putting forward reasonable and rational arguments around the last indyref on here in amongst all that. And you'll find it again this time. People take what they want to take - if people are looking to be called names and ignore debate, that's what they'll take away and vice versa. If anybody comes on here expecting everyone to act like they're enjoying after dinner drinks at Stephen Fry's debating the issues of the day, I'm not sure how I could begin to describe their mistake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburgh phil Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 You could have powered the national grid with the absolute seethe generated by Theresa May in her first reaction interview. Salmond looking v pleased with proceedings also.This is already box office stuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Nobody's going to deny that there is a hell of a lot of name-calling and shite being flung back and forward. And you have a point. Both sides may be as bad as each other but Yes is the side who need to convince, and a more conciliatory approach with soft No's will certainly be more effective than name calling. But you'll have found plenty of people putting forward reasonable and rational arguments around the last indyref on here in amongst all that. And you'll find it again this time. People take what they want to take - if people are looking to be called names and ignore debate, that's what they'll take away and vice versa. If anybody comes on here expecting everyone to act like they're enjoying after dinner drinks at Stephen Fry's debating the issues of the day, I'm not sure how I could begin to describe their mistake. There weren't too many, and they were generally rubbished by the other side who didn't usually put forward counter arguments, iirc, but I will be the first to admit I wasn't paying all that much attention to the debate as it didn't really affect me and I had no vote, but my general impression of the various independence threads was a lot of (fairly vicious) name calling and very little debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: Wonder how long it will take for H_B to start tone trolling on here again? Dont know but lets not forget much like the old alky halfwit that lives down south he was proclaiming it wouldnt be called 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Utterly delicious to think of @The_Kincardine waking from yesterday's all day bevvy session, surrounded by empty chip boxes and fag ends, to the news his precious Union is coming to an end. Heres to you, ya utter fanny! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 A lot of uncertainty from both sides this time. This is a 'leave' led UK government, who when asked what the brexit plan was the day after Brexit was voted for, literally stated that it was the remain side's job to have had a brexit plan. Quite curious to see how this plays with the silent majority and swing voters this time around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: There weren't too many, and they were generally rubbished by the other side who didn't usually put forward counter arguments, iirc, but I will be the first to admit I wasn't paying all that much attention to the debate as it didn't really affect me and I had no vote, but my general impression of the various independence threads was a lot of (fairly vicious) name calling and very little debate. 6 minutes ago, Londonwell said: Utterly delicious to think of @The_Kincardine waking from yesterday's all day bevvy session, surrounded by empty chip boxes and fag ends, to the news his precious Union is coming to an end. Heres to you, ya utter fanny! Didn't take long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooky Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Might vote yes now because I'm petty and they fucked up my name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: People take what they want to take - if people are looking to be called names and ignore debate, that's what they'll take away and vice versa. If anybody comes on here expecting everyone to act like they're enjoying after dinner drinks at Stephen Fry's debating the issues of the day, I'm not sure how I could begin to describe their mistake. The art of debate is dead. People need to realise that calling the opposition yoons, britnats, deluded, bigots etc is not going to achieve anything. It's like calling people from the right racist scumbags because they like the cut of Mr Trumps jib. How on earth can you expect to get anyone on your side if all you do is belittle them and make them feel terrible about themselves? All you get is them thinking "you know what, f**k you - I'm voting No." I've been guilty of it in the past. It's easy to type an insult on Facebook and move on. Don't get me wrong, there are some massive massive morons in the world and it'll be near impossible to converse with some of them in a dignified way. I'm talking about the ones who say stuff like "sturgeons a nazi, jimmy crankie, WATP, *insert British flag emoj*." These guys are a lost cause. You could perfectly make your point in a hundred different ways and they'll never ever listen. There will be thousands of Scots who think like that and they'll never change. We can get others on our side though. We can do that be reading up on the facts and having an answer to absolutely everything that is thrown at us. People will continue to watch the BBC, they will continue to read the Daily express, they will continue to read what the people are saying in BIG CAPITAL LETTERS SO IT LOOKS LIKE IM SHOUTING THUS EMPHASISING MY POINT MORE!!! on the Sky News comments section and they will lap that shit up because it's all they'll ever know unless we do something about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said: There weren't too many, and they were generally rubbished by the other side who didn't usually put forward counter arguments, iirc, but I will be the first to admit I wasn't paying all that much attention to the debate as it didn't really affect me and I had no vote, but my general impression of the various independence threads was a lot of (fairly vicious) name calling and very little debate. I don't think anyone is really is a position to put an accurate figure on the reasonable / load of shite post ratio but I can assure you there were more than a few posters on either side who made some very good contributions to the debate. If you weren't paying much attention, maybe you missed that. A good bitch-fest can catch the eye a lot easier. From memory guys like renton (Yes), ThatBoyRonaldo (Soft No?) and AdLib (Flip flopper) made consistently reasoned contributions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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