When will indyref2 happen?

[StellarHibee]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

I'm convinced Forbes is a Tory plant in the SNP.  You can guarantee her Tory councillor husband feeds her lines.

Aren't the SNP just an accumulation of tory and Labour plants?

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

Aren't the SNP just an accumulation of tory and Labour plants?

That's a Day of the Triffids adaption I'd pay to see.

[TheScarf]

10 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

Aren't the SNP just an accumulation of tory and Labour plants?

Most of them do seem to be. Forbes, Ewing, Cherry.  That's off the top of my heard without giving it a second of thought.

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, TheScarf said:

I'm convinced Forbes is a Tory plant in the SNP.  You can guarantee her Tory councillor husband feeds her lines.

I didn’t think she drank alcohol let alone snorted coke.

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

3 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

Not for those "too clever" for context such as razamanaz. People will share this crap around the internet and the vast majority will take the article at face value. Job done as far as the herald is concerned.

The article clearly states in both the opening line and later on that it's a joke. Do you expect the media not to report on this sort of thing ? 

[alta-pete]

FWIW I like her. She's got principles.

[StellarHibee]

29 minutes ago, Ziggy Sobotka said:

The article clearly states in both the opening line and later on that it's a joke. Do you expect the media not to report on this sort of thing ? 

How many people do you think actually bother to read beyond the headline and the image ffs? 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

23 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

FWIW I like her. She's got principles.

^^^

Nicola Sturgeon choosing her cabinet in 2018.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

1 minute ago, StellarHibee said:

How many people do you think actually bother to read beyond the headline and the image ffs? 

The same could be said for just about any article though.

[orfc]

1 hour ago, StellarHibee said:

Aren't the SNP just an accumulation of tory and Labour plants?

I thought we'd established on the other thread Labour are just Tories anyways, so it's Tories all the way down

[O'Kelly Isley III]

4 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

Not for those "too clever" for context such as razamanaz. People will share this crap around the internet and the vast majority will take the article at face value. Job done as far as the herald is concerned.

There was a bigger crowd at Easter Road on Sunday than read The Herald these days, so I wouldn't overestimate its impact.  Doesn't stop them trying however; in recent days we've had Kevin McKenna, Apostle to the Poor and the Pious, with a full-page interview with Anas Sarwar followed by another full-page on the Labour campaign in Rutherglen, and topped off today with a reheat of fifteen or so previous articles in condemnation of the SNP.

The only thing missing is balance.

[StellarHibee]

4 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

There was a bigger crowd at Easter Road on Sunday than read The Herald these days, so I wouldn't overestimate its impact.  Doesn't stop them trying however; in recent days we've had Kevin McKenna, Apostle to the Poor and the Pious, with a full-page interview with Anas Sarwar followed by another full-page on the Labour campaign in Rutherglen, and topped off today with a reheat of fifteen or so previous articles in condemnation of the SNP.

The only thing missing is balance.

I agree. But guaranteed thousands of people will skim past the article headline on their twitter or facebook feed and will inevitably be influenced by that alone. British media knows this and uses misleading article headlines and images to influence people's views, knowing full well that they're not going to open up the article for the full context. Which are hidden behind a paywall at least half of the time anyway.

Edited August 22, 2023 by StellarHibee

[Guest]

On 21/08/2023 at 18:18, Ziggy Sobotka said:

 

Is she talking about refractory periods?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

11 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Is she talking about refractory periods?

Possibly, although the funniest thing about it his her idea that we'll still be having an Independence referendum in the unlikely event that Jesus has returned to the earth, raised the dead and has judged everyone good or bad.

Me to Jesus as he's reanimating corpses and sending non believers to hell: So JC, we're thinking September 2025 as it doesn't clash with a general election year. What do you think, will you be done by then ?

[RuMoore]

1 hour ago, StellarHibee said:

I agree. But guaranteed thousands of people will skim past the article headline on their twitter or facebook feed and will inevitably be influenced by that alone. British media knows this and uses misleading article headlines and images to influence people's views, knowing full well that they're not going to open up the article for the full context. Which are hidden behind a paywall at least half of the time anyway.

Everyone knows this

Is this your first time on the Internet? Literally every news source online does this to try and compete, the National do it, your favourite source and mine both do it, this isn't some grand conspiracy. 

[Guest]

On 21/08/2023 at 19:37, sophia said:

There are people who refuse to believe the nastiness around the Corbyns of this world. Each to their own.

I'd give Chris Williamson as an example, he had some nasty and wrong ideas on the Syrian war. 

Yet the nastiness around Corbyn was far less significant than the nastiness directed at Corbyn because of who was doing it. Corbyn's backing was all generated from the grass roots. That constrasted sharply with the opposition to him, which was directed by the most powerful forces in UK society. It was a lesson on the contemporary limits to UK democracy.

[sophia]

8 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

I'd give Chris Williamson as an example, he had some nasty and wrong ideas on the Syrian war. 

Yet the nastiness around Corbyn was far less significant than the nastiness directed at Corbyn because of who was doing it. Corbyn's backing was all generated from the grass roots. That constrasted sharply with the opposition to him, which was directed by the most powerful forces in UK society. It was a lesson on the contemporary limits to UK democracy.

I agree to a certain extent but the opposition to Corbyn was much more extensive so to characterise it as an elite cabal v the good guys isn't something I can buy into.

The man on the Clapham omnibus was never going to be convinced and at crucial junctures he showed and I'll be kind, a startling naivety.

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, sophia said:

I agree to a certain extent but the opposition to Corbyn was much more extensive so to characterise it as an elite cabal v the good guys isn't something I can buy into.

The man on the Clapham omnibus was never going to be convinced and at crucial junctures he showed and I'll be kind, a startling naivety.

 

 

I didn't characterise all opposition to Corbyn as elite. I put that it was "directed" or generated by the elite. Liberal democracy creates an uneven democracy because it ensures an ownership class. Individuals from that class can then use their disproportionate financial resources to exert political influence to an extent the rest of us cannot. As the last few comments in the thread have been discussing, one of the ways they influence political opinion is via media.

We became aware of the above image and the story connected to it through that media, controlled as it is by the elite among the ownership class, Murdoch and the rest. Of course working folk digest what they're presented, some will agree with it, and it'll then become their personal belief. However, that doesn't change that the information was presented to them in a way entirely biased to the interests of that media's ownership.

There's a lot that can be said about that image and issues around it. I'm guessing the artist was an Afro-Caribbean descent Londoner given the Black woman they've painted and the depiction of the Illuminati symbol. As we know, that stuff comes from Black Americans and has spread to London because many Black Londoners have direct relatives in USA through shared Caribbean roots. Black American attempts to make sense of their situation through standard academic tools of class analysis were beaten out of them last century under Cold War McCarthyist policies. COINTELPRO and the like. With all socialist efforts nipped in the bud, some conscious but uneducated Black folk sought to adapt white supremacist ideology to their situation. That's where the Black antisemitism came from.

So Corbyn's turned up in that part of London with Afro-Caribbean heritage folk. That artist is probably a local activist and therefore widely respected. He may have a history of successfully promoting folk's needs there, providing welfare information or setting up foodbanks or whatever. If you just turn up, solely write the guy off as an antisemite, then go home, you're contributing to the continued alienation and marginalisation of that community. A properly democratic society would want the issue explored, explained, understood, debated and ultimately solved. Instead we just got "Corbyn antisemite" from our media and that was good enough for ignorant liberal snobs. 

[sophia]

5 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

I didn't characterise all opposition to Corbyn as elite. I put that it was "directed" or generated by the elite. Liberal democracy creates an uneven democracy because it ensures an ownership class. Individuals from that class can then use their disproportionate financial resources to exert political influence to an extent the rest of us cannot. As the last few comments in the thread have been discussing, one of the ways they influence political opinion is via media.

We became aware of the above image and the story connected to it through that media, controlled as it is by the elite among the ownership class, Murdoch and the rest. Of course working folk digest what they're presented, some will agree with it, and it'll then become their personal belief. However, that doesn't change that the information was presented to them in a way entirely biased to the interests of that media's ownership.

There's a lot that can be said about that image and issues around it. I'm guessing the artist was an Afro-Caribbean descent Londoner given the Black woman they've painted and the depiction of the Illuminati symbol. As we know, that stuff comes from Black Americans and has spread to London because many Black Londoners have direct relatives in USA through shared Caribbean roots. Black American attempts to make sense of their situation through standard academic tools of class analysis were beaten out of them last century under Cold War McCarthyist policies. COINTELPRO and the like. With all socialist efforts nipped in the bud, some conscious but uneducated Black folk sought to adapt white supremacist ideology to their situation. That's where the Black antisemitism came from.

So Corbyn's turned up in that part of London with Afro-Caribbean heritage folk. That artist is probably a local activist and therefore widely respected. He may have a history of successfully promoting folk's needs there, providing welfare information or setting up foodbanks or whatever. If you just turn up, solely write the guy off as an antisemite, then go home, you're contributing to the continued alienation and marginalisation of that community. A properly democratic society would want the issue explored, explained, understood, debated and ultimately solved. Instead we just got "Corbyn antisemite" from our media and that was good enough for ignorant liberal snobs. 

As I said, naivety at the least.

The least said about his Brexit contribution the better but hey he's a worthy sort.

 

[welshbairn]

43 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

. That artist is probably a local activist and therefore widely respected. He may have a history of successfully promoting folk's needs there, providing welfare information or setting up foodbanks or whatever. If you just turn up, solely write the guy off as an antisemite, then go home, you're contributing to the continued alienation and marginalisation of that community.

f**k off, he flew over from LA to do it. I admire the way you try to approach things rationally from a leftish perspective but you don't half fall down a dialectical rabbit hole sometimes. That picture could have been on the front page of Der Sturmer when Eastenders were fighting street battles with Mosely's black shirts.

Edited August 22, 2023 by welshbairn