When will indyref2 happen?

[Granny Danger]

Anyone who thinks that Keir Starmer won’t sell out his principles (yes I know) if that’s what he needs to do to get into No 10 should seek help now.

[btb]

11 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Most of England’s population are patriotic Brits.

 

Losing Scotland would lead to widespread unpopularity of whichever PM was responsible for it. 

Are you sure? IIRC during the Brexit process (2019ish) polls showed 60% of Leave voters thought that Scottish Independence was a worthwhile price to pay. 

[MONKMAN]

Starmer is in a win win situation by saying he wouldn't do a deal with the SNP.  He knows fine well that they wouldn't put the tories into power, so he holds all the aces.

[Bully Wee Villa]

When was the last time that Scotland held the balance of power after a General Election? Does it happen very often?

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, MONKMAN said:

Starmer is in a win win situation by saying he wouldn't do a deal with the SNP.  He knows fine well that they wouldn't put the tories into power, so he holds all the aces.

Shite analysis.

[MONKMAN]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

Shite analysis.

The SNP have repeatedly stated that if they held the balance of power, they would never put the tories into Government.  It really is that simple.  

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Anyone who thinks that Keir Starmer won’t sell out his principles (yes I know) if that’s what he needs to do to get into No 10 should seek help now.

He'll sell out his principles, but not the principles of the people he needs to get into power, unless he's prepared to settle for a single term. Which he might be; that's all he's likely to get at the moment anyway.

Coalition with the SNP wouldn't just outrage a vital portion of the people whose votes he's courting ("I never voted to let the Jocks run the country! It's like the tail wagging the dog!"), it would completely kill Scottish Labour; Unionists would continue with the Tories, the 40-odd percent of independence-supporting Labour voters could vote SNP knowing that it's as good as a vote for Labour in Westminster.

[scottsdad]

9 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

When was the last time that Scotland held the balance of power after a General Election? Does it happen very often?

Not immediately after a GE, but by the late 70s Labour were relying on all sorts, including the SNP, to keep them in government. 

[KirkieRR]

4 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Coalition with the SNP wouldn't just outrage a vital portion of the people whose votes he's courting ("I never voted to let the Jocks run the country! It's like the tail wagging the dog!"),

Coalition isn't an option, agreed. Some other voting arrangement may be necessary. And if he courts anti-Scottish xenophobia in his support, more fool him.

5 minutes ago, BFTD said:

it would completely kill Scottish Labour

Scottish Labour are floating belly-up already, and all self-inflicted.

[Granny Danger]

6 minutes ago, BFTD said:

He'll sell out his principles, but not the principles of the people he needs to get into power, unless he's prepared to settle for a single term. Which he might be; that's all he's likely to get at the moment anyway.

Coalition with the SNP wouldn't just outrage a vital portion of the people whose votes he's courting ("I never voted to let the Jocks run the country! It's like the tail wagging the dog!"), it would completely kill Scottish Labour; Unionists would continue with the Tories, the 40-odd percent of independence-supporting Labour voters could vote SNP knowing that it's as good as a vote for Labour in Westminster.

No one is talking about a coalition.

[Leith Green]

34 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Anyone who thinks that Keir Starmer won’t sell out his principles (yes I know) if that’s what he needs to do to get into No 10 should seek help now.

Agreed, several weeks ago when they were riding a  lot higher in the polls, he could afford to say "I will never work with these daft Jocks".

Now, and as we get closer to a GE, if the numbers dictate it there is almost no scenario whereby KS wont ask the SNP for their MPs (and hence give an Indyref).

People seem to forget just how limp the Lib Dems vote is, and Labour is not going to win in the numbers they were crowing about a few short weeks ago.

This isnt over, but Westminster could have saved us years of fuckin angst by just saying "aye, huv it".

[alta-pete]

41 minutes ago, Juanhourjoe said:

On that basis. I'd assume the gaidhealtachd could declare independence anytime, and have no objections from the courts. 

You’re kidding me on? They’re everywhere, on Poileas vans, Ambaieans and railway stations all the way down to the border! 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

It really is some take that instead of making a case for ‘why’ we should stay in the UK that people on here and elsewhere are celebrating that the people of Scotland are not allowed to make constitutional decisions against the wishes of a government elected essentially solely by the English power base. Lets all just take a second to reflect that people actually think this is a good thing. 

[BFTD]

12 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Scottish Labour are floating belly-up already, and all self-inflicted.

It can still get a lot worse for them. Just look at the Lib Dems.

12 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

No one is talking about a coalition.

They can call it what they like, but the moment another independence referendum is discussed, that's what it'll be seen as in the areas that are important to Labour right now.

[ford prefect]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

It really is some take that instead of making a case for ‘why’ we should stay in the UK that people on here and elsewhere are celebrating that the people of Scotland are not allowed to make constitutional decisions against the wishes of a government elected essentially solely by the English power base. Lets all just take a second to reflect that people actually think this is a good thing. 

Yeah folk struggling with huge bills and inflation but still beholden to the very union which puts in a government that has left us all worse off than 2009. While  spouting misogynistic shite like wee nippy or wee krankie while cheering absolute buffoons like Johnson and truss.

[BFTD]

6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

It really is some take that instead of making a case for ‘why’ we should stay in the UK that people on here and elsewhere are celebrating that the people of Scotland are not allowed to make constitutional decisions against the wishes of a government elected essentially solely by the English power base. Lets all just take a second to reflect that people actually think this is a good thing. 

It doesn't seem to occur to them that, despite it supposedly being a good thing that Scotland can't withdraw from the union, England can.

Considering the self-harm involved in leaving the EU, they must be bricking it that England similarly decides we're the bad guys too.

[Billy Jean King]

Some day when dyed in the wool Tories are on here (some for the first time in months lol) telling us that Starmers Labour wouldn't cut a deal with the SNP if it was required to deliver them power in Westminster. Shows just how fucked the Tories are.

It Tories in Scotland are happy at the prospect of a Labour majority at the next GE just so the possibility of any deal with the SNP isn't on the table, they are more warped than most of us non Tories thought.

Truly truly red and blue cheeks of the same arse.

[alta-pete]

11 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

It really is some take that instead of making a case for ‘why’ we should stay in the UK that people on here and elsewhere are celebrating that the people of Scotland are not allowed to make constitutional decisions against the wishes of a government elected essentially solely by the English power base. Lets all just take a second to reflect that people actually think this is a good thing. 

Or another version is the English could have got upset when it was all the Scottish elected Labour MPs that got them into UK Government at the expense of the majority of English Tories.

Thats politics and them’s the breaks. And actually now plays into the SNP’s hands - for as long as they are popular up here Labour will never be able to win enough Westminster seats to govern, handing us a Tory UK Government in virtual perpetuity. 

A wild take that’d never happen but disband the SNP and you’d get a more leftist UK Government more often. 

[101]

The list of rallies taking place today -

Edinburgh

Holyrood Parliament

5:15pm - 7:30pm

Aberdeen

St Nicholas Square

5:30pm

Borders

Selkirk Square and on to Kirk o Forest

6.30pm

Dumfries

Midsteeple area in the town centre.

Beside the Planestanes

5:30pm

Dundee

City Square, in front of the Caird Hall

5:30pm

Fort William

Fort William High St

6:30pm

Glasgow

Concert Hall steps

Buchanan Street

5:30pm

Greenock

Lyle fountain in Cathcart Square

5:15pm for 5:30pm

Inverness

Inverness Townhouse

Starts 6:30pm

Inverurie

Inverurie Town Hall

5:30pm

Lochgilphead

Front Green Lochgilphead

12noon

Orkney

St Magnus Cathedral, Kirk Green

5:15pm

Perth

Concert Hall Plaza

5:30pm

Skye

Portree Sheriff Court, Portree Square 

5:30pm

Stirling

At Performance Area, Junction of King Street and Murray Place

5:30pm

[Jambomo]

6 minutes ago, BFTD said:

It doesn't seem to occur to them that, despite it supposedly being a good thing that Scotland can't withdraw from the union, England can.

Considering the self-harm involved in leaving the EU, they must be bricking it that England similarly decides we're the bad guys too.

I’ve thought for a while that could happen. The Tories always need an “other” to be seen to be winning against and now it’s not the EU anymore, we aren’t an unlikely target.

The Government are not stupid enough to think we should actually leave, but I could see another BREXIT scenario, where they go overboard on rhetoric and an Indy vote or leaving Scotland, becomes an unintended consequence of it, because they wind voters up enough to demand it.