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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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14 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

There is not a week goes by without the case for Independence becoming more urgent.  The absolute nonsense surrounding the death of the head of a dysfunctional, entitled, corrupt, archaic hereditary monarchy is proof positive once again.

Getting shot of them following Independence is down the priority list but ridding ourselves of the institution and undercutting those toadies who support its continuance will be a huge step in shaping a modern, democratic, secular country and society.

I miss the original IndyRef days when monarchists were incredulous at the idea of Alec Salmond being democratically appointed as Head of State. They seemed absolutely determined that would be what happened without the Windsors running the show, and it was just the worst thing they could imagine, not because of anything in particular he might say or do, but because he'd absolutely fucking love that, wouldn't he? Eh? President Salmond? That's what he wants. He'd fucking love it.

Winding themselves up something awful over the idea, yet unable to properly articulate why without admitting that democracy's a bit shite, and it's much better to have these decisions taken out of the hands of the plebs in case those idiots voted for the wrong person.

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Leaving aside the politicising  of a 96 year old pensioner's death, | was interested in the quote by Tom Harris

web-capture_13-9-2022_16144_www.dailymail.co_.uk_.jpeg?w=270&h=85

The last great setback for the Snp was the Indyref in 2014. As Tom feels that a generation has passed since then, maybe Labour are coming round to the view that Indyref2 is inevitable?

Or maybe they use different definitions of generation depending on context?

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4 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Leaving aside the politicising  of a 96 year old pensioner's death, | was interested in the quote by Tom Harris

web-capture_13-9-2022_16144_www.dailymail.co_.uk_.jpeg?w=270&h=85

The last great setback for the Snp was the Indyref in 2014. As Tom feels that a generation has passed since then, maybe Labour are coming round to the view that Indyref2 is inevitable?

Or maybe they use different definitions of generation depending on context?

Is this the same former socialist turned alt-righter Tom Harris, who dedicated the last several years to dealing fatal blows to political unions?

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On 11/09/2022 at 21:15, BFTD said:

Get back on to the pensions, lads. That was all most amusing.

Very much Dougal, Ted, and the faraway cows, only if Dougal wasn't smart enough to be confused.

As well as the pensions stuff, I particularly like the descent into pish about stuff in the 18th C stopping any chance of independence happening.  

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3 hours ago, Antlion said:

Is this the same former socialist turned alt-righter Tom Harris, who dedicated the last several years to dealing fatal blows to political unions?

Even by unionist standards, he seems extremely bitter about the direction modern Scotland has taken.  

I'd imagine he thought he had a job for life as Labour MP for Cathcart, until the horrid nats came along and upset the applecart for his ilk.

It's not all been downhill though, he has since been parachuted into the boards of both the Scotland Office as well as the Advocate General and writes for the Telegraph.

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Just now, Ayrshire Analytica said:

Even by unionist standards, he seems extremely bitter about the direction modern Scotland has taken.  

I'd imagine he thought he had a job for life as Labour MP for Cathcart, until the horrid nats came along and upset the applecart for his ilk.

It's not all been downhill though, he has since been parachuted into the boards of both the Scotland Office as well as the Advocate General and writes for the Telegraph.

Aye, it would be a turn up for the books if the UK didn’t reward its loyal servants’ failures with plum positions and fat pay cheques.

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29 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Aye, it would be a turn up for the books if the UK didn’t reward its loyal servants’ failures with plum positions and fat pay cheques.

It wouldn't surprise me if he had to vie for the position with a few other of the ghoulish collaborators booted after that General Election.  

Douglas Alexander, Michael McCann, Margaret Curran, et al.

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4 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

I’ve noticed a lot of stories like this in the last week

How Elizabeth dying is a blow to independence and the new monarch will help solidify the union

 

It's been going on a lot longer than that. If the weather's quite nice, there always seems to be hundreds of articles and tweets about this being a bitter death knell for the independence movement. Y'know, after IndyRef 1 killed what was left after Devolution ended the remains of what Margaret Thatcher's reign decimated.

Surely nobody actually believes a word of it. Right enough, there were thousands of people thinking, "I don't think much of Brenda, but once the hapless tampon fantasist is in cherge, I'll be right back on board the United Kingdom experiment".

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There is a tremendous amount of wishful thinking going on amongst Unionists but our old friend John Curtice thinks that there will be no shift in the dial arising from the Queen's death.

And I tend to agree; once this festival of grief subsides and the harsh realities kick in as they surely will, then mawkish sentiment will give way to much more important matters.

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41 minutes ago, Frank Quitely said:

There is a tremendous amount of wishful thinking going on amongst Unionists but our old friend John Curtice thinks that there will be no shift in the dial arising from the Queen's death.

And I tend to agree; once this festival of grief subsides and the harsh realities kick in as they surely will, then mawkish sentiment will give way to much more important matters.

I'm not sure I agree with JC. At the very least, her death has loosened the ties that bind.

The next and imminent constitutional issue to resolve is the Northern Ireland Protocol. Whichever way that plays out will draw the sting from the "great wall of Gretna" nonsense. 

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If Unionists have any sense they will repeat what they did inn 2014 in any future referendum, stay silent but let "sources close the Queen" note at regular intervals that she was agin it - like I said if Chuck has any sense (and I hope he doesn't) he'll do the same, any public backing of NO will backfire. 

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5 hours ago, sophia said:

I'm not sure I agree with JC. At the very least, her death has loosened the ties that bind.

The next and imminent constitutional issue to resolve is the Northern Ireland Protocol. Whichever way that plays out will draw the sting from the "great wall of Gretna" nonsense. 

I’m inclined to agree with this interpretation, might be more wishful thinking than anything else, but I think (as King) Charles will have the ability to rub people up the wrong way, he won’t be able to help himself talking publicly about his thoughts & he doesn’t have the advantage of being “yer granny” plunged into “duty” at a young age when times were different.

Hopefully he makes a c**t of things & Independence gets a wee boost in the polls from people who liked the Queen & think he’s a twat. 

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2 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

I’m inclined to agree with this interpretation, might be more wishful thinking than anything else, but I think (as King) Charles will have the ability to rub people up the wrong way, he won’t be able to help himself talking publicly about his thoughts & he doesn’t have the advantage of being “yer granny” plunged into “duty” at a young age when times were different.

Hopefully he makes a c**t of things & Independence gets a wee boost in the polls from people who liked the Queen & think he’s a twat. 

Unlikely. King Billy is coming, and everyone likes him because he's young and dashing.

Although, thinking about it, he's no longer the former and was never the latter, but that's beside the point.

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46 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Unlikely. King Billy is coming, and everyone likes him because he's young and dashing.

Although, thinking about it, he's no longer the former and was never the latter, but that's beside the point.

He'll soon be a baldy old twat.

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21 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said:

He'll soon be a baldy old twat.

He's almost as old as me. That ship has very much sailed!

I have the hair; he has the money, power, and popularity. But he'll never know the joy of grinding out a 2-1 win against Montrose, and for that I pity him.

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just read an interesting article by the Scots economist John McLaren where he points out that fiscal devolution (we pay higher taxes in Scotland) is bringing no benefit. All it is doing is papering over the cracks of lower growth and fewer higher tax payers in Scotland than in RUK.

In fact the SG will need to keep upping the tax take in Scotland merely to stand still as it is looking at a massive black hole down the tracks.

We would have been better off sticking to the Barrnett formula rather than going for tax devolution according to McLaren.

This also has ramifications to an independent Scotland being able to meet pension liabilities(here we go again) as it will need to pay liabilities built up under total UK rules out of an ageing population which has fewer higher paying taxpayers than RUK.

According to the writer the SG needs to go for growth which it can do under existing powers rather than focus on social policies.

To me this is dynamite but no doubt will be rubbished by SNP fan boys.

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30 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

just read an interesting article by the Scots economist John McLaren where he points out that fiscal devolution (we pay higher taxes in Scotland) is bringing no benefit. All it is doing is papering over the cracks of lower growth and fewer higher tax payers in Scotland than in RUK.

In fact the SG will need to keep upping the tax take in Scotland merely to stand still as it is looking at a massive black hole down the tracks.

We would have been better off sticking to the Barrnett formula rather than going for tax devolution according to McLaren.

This also has ramifications to an independent Scotland being able to meet pension liabilities(here we go again) as it will need to pay liabilities built up under total UK rules out of an ageing population which has fewer higher paying taxpayers than RUK.

According to the writer the SG needs to go for growth which it can do under existing powers rather than focus on social policies.

To me this is dynamite but no doubt will be rubbished by SNP fan boys.

You missed out the small print at the end..........

Around 55% of taxpayers pay less income tax in Scotland than they would elsewhere in the UK. Even the Tory Scottish Secretary Alister Jack admitted it. The majority of Scottish taxpayers pay less tax than anyone else in the UK (while receiving free education, free prescriptions, free personal care and so much more).

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