When will indyref2 happen?

[Dawson Park Boy]

4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

59 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Looks like they might as well have put Donald Findlay in, to argue the SG case at the Supreme Court.

I've you are talking about the Advocate General for Scotland - that's actually an appointment of HM Government.

Felt sorry for her.

 

I think she knew she was on a loser.

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

You can't even get that bit right - there are cases when your husband, wife, or civil partner (if you have one) could inherit some of your State Pension. This depends on the amount of National Insurance contributions you both made, and when you both reached (or will reach) State Pension age.
 

I’m talking mainstream state retirement pension.

Please address the central point?

On independence, the SG willpaypensions out of current taxation. The UK government will pay RUK pensions.

Just hope that there will be enough high salaried individuals paying lots of tax to maintain your pension.

London and the South East will no longer be subsiding.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I’m talking mainstream state retirement pension.
Please address the central point?
On independence, the SG willpaypensions out of current taxation. The UK government will pay RUK pensions.
Just hope that there will be enough high salaried individuals paying lots of tax to maintain your pension.
London and the South East will no longer be subsiding.

As am I.

That was a quote from the Government's own website about state pensions.

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

As am I.

That was a quote from the Government's own website about state pensions.

Well, in the cases you mention, they will also be paid by SG.

Please address the central point?

There is NO fund.

Pensions are paid from current taxation and post independence the SG will pay Scottish pensioners.

Very straightforward and fair!

[Guest Jedi]

As Robin McAlpine points out, during the (proposed) transition from using sterling, to setting up a Scottish Central Bank and issuing Scottish currency (however long that takes), the SG would have to cover any funding gap from taxation. This is because any funds which are in the Central Bank (while it is using sterling but building up reserves), would quite quickly be swallowed up on public spending (all of health, education, and yes, penshuunns et al). Once the Central Bank funds have been depleted the gap in resources would have to be covered by taxation.....possible, but clearly taxes would have to go up.

Once the Scottish currency comes on-line, it has to build up a respectable image to be floated on international markets, establish an exchange rate etc. That is more difficult to do if taxation has had to be pushed up.

So.....much better option would be to have a Scottish currency ready to run from day 1 of Independence. This is definitely manageable, given that there would probably be a 2-3 year period of negotiations following a Yes vote.....but 'only' if the SNP drop their idea to continue using sterling in the first instance. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Jedi

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Well, in the cases you mention, they will also be paid by SG.
Please address the central point?
There is NO fund.
Pensions are paid from current taxation and post independence the SG will pay Scottish pensioners.
Very straightforward and fair!

This has been explained to you ad infinitum.

Any pension built up prior to independence is a liability for the UK government. Any pension built up afterwards would be a liability for the Scottish Government.

We currently have thousands who get pensions despite not being UK Nationals or residing in the UK because they paid sufficient NI contributions - it's that simple.

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

f**k me, first the EU queue pish, today it's 'The UK is country'.

What's the fallacy for tomorrow?  We've had penshuns and currency.  I'll take defence/NATO if that's ok with everyone?

Re defence, the UK government and MoD have some years back drawn up the cost of Scottish Independence to England, the largest financial cost was the relocation of Faslane nuclear submarine base, one suggestion by the MoD was that Scotland would be paid a large annual financial retainer for a status quo situation, this of course would be absolutely rejected by an SNP government.

On another note, bear in mind that in Putin's present state of mind that west coast area would be first strike, and given present day IC nuclear missiles capabilities there would be virtually no warning. It is likely that Russian nuclear subs are lurking off St Kilda now, so thanks to England and the union Southern Scotland is expendable, just a thought.

Also there are huge reserves of oil and gas in the lower reaches of the Firth of Clyde and beyond in that area and due to the movements of nuclear submarines no drilling exploration is allowed. Just think the likes of Lochgilphead could have been a major oil servicing port.

[SandyCromarty]

Just now, Jedi said:

As Robin McAlpine points out, during the (proposed) transition from using sterling, to setting up a Scottish Central Bank and issuing Scottish currency (however long that takes), the SG would have to cover any funding gap from taxation. This is because any funds which are in the Central Bank (while it is using sterling but building up reserves), would quite quickly be swallowed up on public spending (all of health, education, and yes, penshuunns et al). Once the Central Bank funds have been depleted the gap in resources would have to be covered by taxation.....possible, but clearly taxes would have to go up.

Once the Scottish currency comes on-line, it has to build up a respectable image to be floated on international markets, establish an exchange rate etc. That is more difficult to do if taxation has had to be pushed up.

So.....much better option would be to have a Scottish currency ready to run from day 1 of Independence. This is definitely manageable, given that there would probably be a 2-3 year period of negotiations following a Yes vote.....but 'only' if the SNP drop their idea to continue using sterling in the first instance. 

The EU to spite england and it's brexit nonsense would back a Scottish Bank to the hilt.

[Rod1877]

35 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

If you are talking about the Advocate General for Scotland - that's actually an appointment of HM Government.

Dorothy Bain isn't the Advocate General and isn't an appointment of HM Government.  She's the Lord Advocate, a minister in the Scottish Government, appointed by the Queen on the recommendation of the First Minister with the approval of the Scottish Parliament.

[Guest Jedi]

6 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

The EU to spite england and it's brexit nonsense would back a Scottish Bank to the hilt.

But would it insist on Scotland adopting the Euro as currency, rather than an separate Scot currency?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

DPB totally overplaying his hand with this LOOK HOW THICK I AM fest 

I'm guessing permaloser DAF is back as well. 

Fabulous. 

[Dawson Park Boy]

31 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

This has been explained to you ad infinitum.

Any pension built up prior to independence is a liability for the UK government. Any pension built up afterwards would be a liability for the Scottish Government.

We currently have thousands who get pensions despite not being UK Nationals or residing in the UK because they paid sufficient NI contributions - it's that simple.
 

Wrong.

[scottsdad]

9 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Wrong.

Sorry, but he is right. This was stated explicitly by the UK pensions minister during indyref 1.

Scots would be treated just like ex-pats. We would receive pensions that has been built up until independence, and not afterwards. Over the next 50 years or so, the UK liability would go down and the Scottish one would go up.

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, scottsdad said:

Sorry, but he is right. This was stated explicitly by the UK pensions minister during indyref 1.

Scots would be treated just like ex-pats. We would receive pensions that has been built up until independence, and not afterwards. Over the next 50 years or so, the UK liability would go down and the Scottish one would go up.

Rubbish

He said something like that but quickly retracted.

LeftBackexplained it to the nth degree but was forced to give up.

Likewise now with me.

[Guest Jedi]

Pensions would indeed continue to be paid. Eventually the Scottish govt would of course assume responsibility/liability for this. 

McAlpine's estimate of £8 billion as Scotland's share of UK assets seems probably fair. That would be part of the cash flow to the 'Central Bank'. However, £8 billion would of course be run down with day to day spending...naturally other revenues would be coming in as well, but the move to a Scottish Currency from the very start is still the better option for not only pensions and the (longer term) funding of them, but also public services in general.

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Jedi

[Dawson Park Boy]

10 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Pensions would indeed continue to be paid. Eventually the Scottish govt would of course assume responsibility/liability for this. 

McAlpine's estimate of £8 billion as Scotland's share of UK assets seems probably fair. That would be part of the cash flow to the 'Central Bank'. However, £8 billion would of course be run down with day to day spending...naturally other revenues would be coming in as well, but the move to a Scottish Currency from the very start is still the better option for not only pensions and the (longer term) funding of them, but also public services in general.

The Institute of Actuaries explains the pensions situation very well.

[SandyCromarty]

Just now, Jedi said:

But would it insist on Scotland adopting the Euro as currency, rather than an separate Scot currency?

And why not, it certainly would be better tied to the third biggest worlds economy currency than to a failing pound.

Fact is to join the EU the present Scottish National Investment Bank, (set up two years ago by the SNP), would become the Scottish Central Bank and then Scotland would move forward to satisfy The Copenhagen Criteria for joining, and yes in the interim we would adopt a pound based currency as had Ireand prior to joining the EU.

It's all tres simple though the unionists will come up with their usual shite which is best ignored as they know that Independence will happen.

Thing is because of the idiotic chaos caused by the little englanders empirical rule brittania brexit the EU will welcome us with open arms, leaving england to enjoy the fantastic trade deals they say they have made since brexit and which in reality have never happened and now businesses are failing dramatically.

The UK is in a financial abyss and facing ruin thanks to a corrupt and incompetent westminster government.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

that west coast area would be first strike, and given present day IC nuclear missiles capabilities there would be virtually no warning.

This would certainly do far more for the West Coast than the EU Leader funding and other EU grant have over the last few decades.  At zero cost this is a definite winner. 

[BFTD]

DPB doubling down is way more entertaining than the standard approach of:

"Here's my strongly held belief, based on these false statements that I could debunk with five minutes on Google"
*incredibly patient posters debunk statements with five minutes on Google*
"Well, I don't know much about it, but that's what I believe anyway. Maybe other posters could share their views. Is that the time? Got to go"

You stick to your guns, china  

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Dorothy Bain isn't the Advocate General and isn't an appointment of HM Government.  She's the Lord Advocate, a minister in the Scottish Government, appointed by the Queen on the recommendation of the First Minister with the approval of the Scottish Parliament.

It was a comment about evidence presented - the Advocate General of Scotland also presented evidence - just making clear that his evidence was on behalf of HM Government.

He made zero attempt to address any of the points made by the Scottish Government.