When will indyref2 happen?

[Duries Air Freshener]

There is absolutely no chance a plebiscite would be enough to ensure partition.

 

I ken it

You ken it

Sturgeon kens it

Patsy Kensit

[Zern]

20 minutes ago, G51 said:

They also managed to lose it to a campaign fronted by Alistair Darling, which was exceptional in a very different way.

Time will tell, and it's impossible to know what it'll look like whenever this GE is actually held. But if you were pricing it up today, I don't think you'd have the SNP odds-on to win that majority of votes.

Another first for the SNP though, coming second in their own referendum.

Indeed time will tell. We are having the debate though and discussion and it does seem that unionist's may struggle to muster any arguments at all. Unionism and Brexit are inseparable. The EU is strong attractor, it offers stability and increased trade and international agreements and recognition with a song contest on top.

[Colkitto]

2 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

There is absolutely no chance a plebiscite would be enough to ensure partition.

 

I ken it

You ken it

Sturgeon kens it

Patsy Kensit

If you receive 50% + in an election fought on the single issue of Independence then no country in the Western World can call themselves a democracy if the fail to agree to a referendum at the very least 

[Duries Air Freshener]

18 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

If you receive 50% + in an election fought on the single issue of Independence then no country in the Western World can call themselves a democracy if the fail to agree to a referendum at the very least 

I believe they indeed can.

[Stellaboz]

2 hours ago, Zern said:

They managed to get the referendum. That was exceptional.

It is. But we're beginning from higher support base from last time, and there is time to give each paper on the issues around this their due. A well done campaign should increase that. It's been a good start.

Unionist support is polling much lower than the result from last time. It suggests that there is less enthusiasm on that side. Lack of a coherent campaign from the unionists is unlikely to help.

Plan? Usual score tactics, blurring facts and simple lying again no doubt from the no campaign. 

[btb]

3 hours ago, Zern said:

They managed to get the referendum. That was exceptional.

It is. But we're beginning from higher support base from last time, and there is time to give each paper on the issues around this their due. A well done campaign should increase that. It's been a good start.

Unionist support is polling much lower than the result from last time. It suggests that there is less enthusiasm on that side. Lack of a coherent campaign from the unionists is unlikely to help.

I think there are less undecideds now, speaking anecotally I don't know many people who have changed their mind on the issue since 2014 so we'll be looking at shifting demographics to give YES a majority.

My own opinion is that if NO was confident they would go for 2023 and try to campaign positively for the Union, that is if they have any positive arguments - all I hear from them is "we were promised it was once in a generation in 2014" and a repeat of the Project Fear claims.

Will there be the same level of support from down south where the three big parties (plus David Bowie) were all singing from the same sheet and any dissenting voices kept quiet - I reckon not. That leaves us with the first rate mind of D Ross to defend the Union which does give me some confidence.

I also go back to an episode of the Andrew Marr show where Brian Cox where he was pleading with Kier Starmer to convince him that he should reverse his decision to support Independence only to be disappointed.

[Granny Danger]

If Eddie Izzard comes to Scotland this time around someone should punch his pus.

[Zern]

1 hour ago, Stellaboz said:

Plan? Usual score tactics, blurring facts and simple lying again no doubt from the no campaign. 

They will try. It just won't work as well now. How can you scare us with austerity, or brexit when that is the policy that is being pursued by UK government?

[Zern]

20 minutes ago, btb said:

I think there are less undecideds now, speaking anecotally I don't know many people who have changed their mind on the issue since 2014 so we'll be looking at shifting demographics to give YES a majority.

My own opinion is that if NO was confident they would go for 2023 and try to campaign positively for the Union, that is if they have any positive arguments - all I hear from them is "we were promised it was once in a generation in 2014" and a repeat of the Project Fear claims.

Will there be the same level of support from down south where the three big parties (plus David Bowie) were all singing from the same sheet and any dissenting voices kept quiet - I reckon not. That leaves us with the first rate mind of D Ross to defend the Union which does give me some confidence.

I also go back to an episode of the Andrew Marr show where Brian Cox where he was pleading with Kier Starmer to convince him that he should reverse his decision to support Independence only to be disappointed.

That's it, the argument is being held by the indy side on the terms we want in the manner we want. What opposition there has been has seemed thinly reasoned out, with no attempt to describe any real benefits of continued UK membership. It swings from pure denial, to triumphalism at the thought of crushing those uppity scots.

The UK plans to turn our human rights into "british" rights doesn't fill me with confidence, because what happens to those deemed less than british? No rights for those unfortunates. But that's okay cos they is all people smugglers and criminals and shit. Not sure i see it as a sign of good governance when elsewhere they are looking to avoid their obligations under international law.

[sophia]

5 hours ago, G51 said:

I can think of one fairly notable exception to that.

Regardless, it's going to be very difficult.

The SNP didn't lose the 2014 referendum 

[G51]

Just now, sophia said:

The SNP didn't lose the 2014 referendum 

[sophia]

Just now, G51 said:

The yes campaign ≠ SNP

Only the ignorant and those with a vested interest fall into such a conflation 

[The_Kincardine]

On 29/06/2022 at 10:21, 10menwent2mow said:

Fine. We'll let the English and the Welsh vote too. Probably be a landslide for Yes if we did. 

Quite possibly - and the outcome isn't really the issue.  That you acknowledge that a British issue should be dealt with by Britain is a step forward.

[John Lambies Doos]

You have the same right to vote as every other UK citizen.  We all vote an MP for our respective areas.
National elections are country-wide.
Interesting you say Scotland can ‘f*** right off’ though.  Are you Scottish?

Your first 4 lines proves you didn't read or alternatively you didn't understand my post.
Regarding the final two lines, Scotland can f**k off if it votes No again, and yes...I'm born and bred Scottish and currently see myself as so.

[Dawson Park Boy]

17 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

 

 

Your first 4 lines proves you didn't read or alternatively you didn't understand my post.
Regarding the final two lines, Scotland can f**k off if it votes No again, and yes...I'm born and bred Scottish and currently see myself as so.

 

I’m born and bred Scottish but see myself as primarily British.
Just as a Yorkshireman see himself as British.

Thats the point of this debate.

Everything else is secondary.

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

I’m born and bred Scottish but see myself as primarily British.
Just as a Yorkshireman see himself as British.

Thats the point of this debate.

Everything else is secondary.

That’s probably the worst example you could have chosen.  Have you ever met any Yorkshiremen?  They’re Yorkshire before anything else.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

10 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

I’m born and bred Scottish but see myself as primarily British.
Just as a Yorkshireman see himself as British.

Thats the point of this debate.

Everything else is secondary.

You'll always be British, nobody can take that away from you but you may welll be British in an Independent Scotland. 

[Dan Steele]

10 minutes ago, Left Back said:

That’s probably the worst example you could have chosen.  Have you ever met any Yorkshiremen?  They’re Yorkshire before anything else.

And it would seem some aren't too impressed by London rule either. 

[Dawson Park Boy]

10 minutes ago, Left Back said:

That’s probably the worst example you could have chosen.  Have you ever met any Yorkshiremen?  They’re Yorkshire before anything else.

I don’t see them wanting an independence referendum?

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

And it would seem some aren't too impressed by London rule either. 

Fair play.