When will indyref2 happen?

[Jacksgranda]

46 minutes ago, 101 said:

The good thing is by 2023 we will won't have left the EU and there will be no control on the import of goods so I think it's about perfect as we will still have huge alignment with the EU. Say if it had been held in 2025 or later there naturally would have been some divergence if the UK government had sorted the mess out. Which to be fair is a big if.

Hedging your bets there...

[Zern]

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

When was the last border poll in Northern Ireland?

They've not held one yet, but in UK law it sets the minimum period between holding such border polls for secession from the UK.

[Zern]

3 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

I’d love to know a decent argument for staying in the Union if you live in Scotland.

What is project Fear this time based on?

Forced repatriation of Michael Gove.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

So I get that, but that depends on who England elect and a whole load of politics in between. 

Do you not see the serious issue here? I know you don’t want Scottish independence but there’s a fundamental point that Scotland has no democratic route out of the union if it wants it. That’s a real problem, whether you support it or not. 

I see that it's serious to a minority group of the population. 

If enough people cared or wanted Indy then we'd see more movement on the issue, as it stands people aren't that fussed, what I personally think is neither here nor there really, I've already expressed i understand and I'm sympathetic towards those that do support Indy. Especially people that didn't have a say in 2014, the Yes campaign should've answered the questions that lost them the referendum a lot better. 

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, Zern said:

They've not held one yet, but in UK law it sets the minimum period between holding such border polls for secession from the UK.

Ever?

[Albus Bulbasaur]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Really?

You're not answering their questions either.

I'm not answering one question to your satisfaction... I've answered plenty of questions over the last few pages and asked plenty and had no issue. Unsurprisingly you're the outlier here.

Perhaps you need to dumb down your question for me to understand you great big brained debate lord you. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Albus Bulbasaur

[Scary Bear]

11 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I'm a bit lost at this part?

On the second part, it doesn't matter why people vote for who they do, you can't decide something is single issue for other people. If Labour or Tories stand candidates and even one of them wants to talk about anything other than the constitution that's this notion burst. People have always voted SNP without wanting Indy that wouldn't change just because Nicola says so. 

SNP candidates standing on a single issue of independence for Scotland isn’t a hard issue to get your head around. Or at least it shouldn’t be. If they are explicitly saying that independence is all they are standing for and people vote SNP for some other unknown reason, then those people are beyond help.

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I see that it's serious to a minority group of the population. 

If enough people cared or wanted Indy then we'd see more movement on the issue, as it stands people aren't that fussed, what I personally think is neither here nor there really, I've already expressed i understand and I'm sympathetic towards those that do support Indy. Especially people that didn't have a say in 2014, the Yes campaign should've answered the questions that lost them the referendum a lot better. 

Minority in your opinion. 

I mean this with respect but I think it’s not that serious to you because it suits your views on the matter. 

[Albus Bulbasaur]

Just now, Scary Bear said:

SNP candidates standing on a single issue of independence for Scotland isn’t a hard issue to get your head around. Or at least it shouldn’t be. If they are explicitly saying that independence is all they are standing for and people vote SNP for some other unknown reason, then those people are beyond help.

Of course, I grasped it as soon as it was said. 

They would still need a section 30 though and what I think you might not be grasping is this GE would be of no difference technically speaking than any of the ones we've had previously no matter what Nicola says. Can you seriously see a scenario where SNP lose the SC and then win a GE and try and take Scotland out of the UK? 

[Zern]

I have a feeling that plenty thought that indy had been "killed permanently" a few years back. Yet here we are.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

Minority in your opinion. 

I mean this with respect but I think it’s not that serious to you because it suits your views on the matter. 

Well yeah, also backed up by previous referendums, polling and the amount of Scots that bother to vote for Indy supporting parties. 

Yeah you're right on that second part, pretty obvious though, if I supported Scottish Independence I'd be just as riled up as the rest of you guys. I can see why people feel like it's serious to them and why you may believe more people should care though. 

[Zern]

11 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I see that it's serious to a minority group of the population. 

If enough people cared or wanted Indy then we'd see more movement on the issue, as it stands people aren't that fussed, what I personally think is neither here nor there really, I've already expressed i understand and I'm sympathetic towards those that do support Indy. Especially people that didn't have a say in 2014, the Yes campaign should've answered the questions that lost them the referendum a lot better. 

More movement?

We got a bill announced yesterday that includes an example of the ballot paper for a referendum on 19th October 2023.

We got the Lord Advocate going to the Supreme Court for clarification on the legality of holding an advisory referendum absent a section 30.

We got a further announcement for what happens in the event it all fails, and that the GE will be run on a single issue from the SNP Leader.

Lots of movement. Plenty still to come. With papers to answer specifics on monetary policy, EU membership and more.

[101]

18 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Hedging your bets there...

I'm really not import controls won't begin until December 23 by the earliest. That's if they get N.I protocol sorted or begin a nice trade war which would be excellent for the chances of a yes vote

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, 101 said:

I'm really not import controls won't begin until December 23 by the earliest. That's if they get N.I protocol sorted or begin a nice trade war which would be excellent for the chances of a yes vote

You've missed the "joke", although bold maybe doesn't show up on a phone, I wouldn't know.

[SuperSaints1877]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

A "decent argument"?

Then there's a few of us who would vote No today purely because 8 years isn't enough time since the country democratically voted No to show respect for that decision.

That’s funny.
One of the major issues fought last was that Scotland would be kicked out of the EU. 
Stay in the Union. Stay in the EU. 
That worked out well.

Who will campaign with The Vow Part II?

It is certainly not going to be dull and hopefully those in Scotland with ambition rather than fear will ensure a Yes vote this time. 

This country of ours has vast resources and can stand up as an independent nation. 

Old England is dying as Mike Scott once sung.

It is lacking fresh water and many parts will surrender to the sea.

Embrace change. Be part of a progressive society Oaksoft.

You could become our literary bard of Independent Republic of Scotland!

Failing that you could always go back over the border.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

I'll try but I'm not sure how I can make it easier.

You keep saying Sturgeon should chase a section 30 order.

We know that. We all get it.

That wasn't the question.

The question was what should she do when they refuse to give her one?

You simply repeating the line about requesting a section 30 order shows you either don't understand the question, don't have an answer or you are, as I suspect, playing silly buggers.

 

Well I have actually answered this already a few pages back. 

In that situation you would need to convince WM directly to do so. There would not be the power at Holyrood to call a referendum, as people have stated for a long time now. You're getting wound up I don't have the answer to something Nicola or any Indy supporter has themselves. She explained this yesterday. 

I understand this is enough of a reason for some people to be annoyed and feel grievance right enough. 

[Dons_1988]

8 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Well yeah, also backed up by previous referendums, polling and the amount of Scots that bother to vote for Indy supporting parties. 

Yeah you're right on that second part, pretty obvious though, if I supported Scottish Independence I'd be just as riled up as the rest of you guys. I can see why people feel like it's serious to them and why you may believe more people should care though. 

And that’s your prerogative but it becomes an argument for independence in itself. 

 

[Zern]

16 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Ever?

Well. They've not had one called by a Nationalist yet.

It is worth considering if MIchelle O'Neill were in a similar position to Nicola Sturgeon, able to legislate a request for a border poll, whether the UK would refuse.

[Donathan]

28 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

So I get that, but that depends on who England elect and a whole load of politics in between. 

Do you not see the serious issue here? I know you don’t want Scottish independence but there’s a fundamental point that Scotland has no democratic route out of the union if it wants it. That’s a real problem, whether you support it or not. 

Does Aberdeenshire have a democratic route to leave Scotland?

 

Does Wales have a democratic route to leave the UK?

 

Does Detroit have a democratic route to leave the USA?

 

 

[Albus Bulbasaur]

4 minutes ago, Zern said:

More movement?

We got a bill announced yesterday that includes an example of the ballot paper for a referendum on 19th October 2023.

We got the Lord Advocate going to the Supreme Court for clarification on the legality of holding an advisory referendum absent a section 30.

We got a further announcement for what happens in the event it all fails, and that the GE will be run on a single issue from the SNP Leader.

Lots of movement. Plenty still to come. With papers to answer specifics on monetary policy, EU membership and more.

I'd count that as movement, stating that you're going to SC over the issue is what's already been the state of play for the past 6 or 7 years... having a further GE after SC ruling against you is barely "movement" unless you're a sloth.