When will indyref2 happen?

[Antlion]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The Westminster model is pish but that doesn't mean the independent Scotland model won't be worse.

 

Is “Better Together” rebranding as “Maybe, Probably Slightly Less Pish Together”? It’s catchy.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

Sounds more reasonable than “stay out of the EU forever and under Tory rule for the foreseeable future”.

Maybe it does but the reality is you are applying to join the EU at a point where there are five candidate countries waiting to get in and Ukraine also trying to join. It's pretty clear that the EU doesn't want any of them so it's hard to see them letting us in either.

In the meantime Scotland is using Sterling, has no central bank and is economically up shit creek with vultures circling.

[Antlion]

Just now, Detournement said:

Maybe it does but the reality is you are applying to join the EU at a point where there are five candidate countries waiting to get in and Ukraine also trying to join. It's pretty clear that the EU doesn't want any of them so it's hard to see them letting us in either.

In the meantime Scotland is using Sterling, has no central bank and is economically up shit creek with vultures circling.

Good thing there isn’t a queue and that the EU doesn’t work like that. I get it, though, we’re shit.

Can we just confirm the mock-socialist position is currently “Tory Brexit Britain good - independent Scotland bad”?

[BFTD]

Goodness me. Whatever could have triggered this old-school multi-thread H_B rant?

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

Good thing there isn’t a queue and that the EU doesn’t work like that. I get it, though, we’re shit.

Can we just confirm the mock-socialist position is currently “Tory Brexit Britain good - independent Scotland bad”?

Why do you think we would get in before North Macedonia or Turkey or Ukraine? 

There is a consistency to all these claims. We will be like Denmark, not Greece! We will be resource rich like Canada not Mexico! We will get into the EU much faster than Albania! It's blatant.

It's not about one thing being good and the other being bad. That's moronic. It's about having an understanding of the existing economic and political situation rather than just operating on vibes with a bit of Northern European chauvinism thrown in as well. 

[Tattie36]

I think you also have to throw in the fact that Scotland/Scottish people are in a very unique situation in that we were already in the EU and were forcibly removed even though the vast majority of the population voted to stay. The powers that be will be very aware of this.

[Antlion]

13 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Why do you think we would get in before North Macedonia or Turkey or Ukraine? 

 

There is no queue. Countries accede to EU membership when they fit the criteria and are formally accepted. There are boxes to tick, and different countries manage to (or decide to) tick them all at different times. Depending on the domestic situations of those countries, they will conclude the box-ticking when they are able (or willing) to do so.

The idea of applicant countries forming a line to be judged by the monolithic, dictatorial EU is, unsurprisingly, a longterm Brexiter-Tory ploy to demonise the EU. It’s straight out of the Farage/Davis/Rees-Mogg playbook. Of course, in this context, it also allows for some sniping at Scotland, which happens to be another page of the same BritNat script. In reality, actual accession is a process of mutual negotiation which can be tied up by either side or proceed smoothly depending on the situations in the applicant countries. 

Edited June 16 by Antlion

[welshbairn]

54 minutes ago, Detournement said:

And on top of the shite economic conditions we don't have a single major party which favours working class people over big business

Do you really think there's less chance of that happening by remaining in the UK than becoming independent?

[Zern]

32 minutes ago, Detournement said:

You would need to have a governing party who would protect the living standards of ordinary people and resist the overtures of external forces to privatise everything that isn't tied down.

Given the SNP's position on Freeports, Offshore Wind, Air BnB, Land Reform and Rent Control we know that they will do whatever Blackrock and co tell them.

On the first, the SNP/Greens do better than the rest.

On the second; um wtf? Conspiracy theories?

[The Skelpit Lug]

Ah well, that's me opting to stay in the UK. Between being last in the line to be vetted for joining the EU and hearing about the bloke in Berwick not being able to get to Eyemouth for messages due to an international border between us an England, it's just all too much.

[Detournement]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Do you really think there's less chance of that happening by remaining in the UK than becoming independent?

Aye actually.

I think that it used to be true about Scotland being more left leaning but the things that made it that way have largely disappeared and been replaced by electorally dominant new build suburbs with leased motors in the driveway and a culture dominated by the gentrified areas of the two big cities which are left liberal and very close to the Scottish government. Scotland will have a dull centrist politics for a long time.

England is very multi cultural, more urban and has crazy social pressures building up to due to public services being cut at the same time population has been increasing. It could go further right or left.

[TonyHendrix]

43 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Sounds more reasonable than “stay out of the EU forever and under Tory rule for the foreseeable future”.

Obviously,that's been the Tory plan all along. 

[Zern]

They're trying to deport people to a landlocked country in the centre of Africa, i think they might just be tending right rather than left there.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

Aye actually.

I think that it used to be true about Scotland being more left leaning but the things that made it that way have largely disappeared and been replaced by electorally dominant new build suburbs with leased motors in the driveway and a culture dominated by the gentrified areas of the two big cities which are left liberal and very close to the Scottish government. Scotland will have a dull centrist politics for a long time.

England is very multi cultural, more urban and has crazy social pressures building up to due to public services being cut at the same time population has been increasing. It could go further right or left.

The English working classes seem to be going further to the right every day, a bit like yourself.

[BFTD]

8 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Aye actually.

I think that it used to be true about Scotland being more left leaning but the things that made it that way have largely disappeared and been replaced by electorally dominant new build suburbs with leased motors in the driveway and a culture dominated by the gentrified areas of the two big cities which are left liberal and very close to the Scottish government. Scotland will have a dull centrist politics for a long time.

England is very multi cultural, more urban and has crazy social pressures building up to due to public services being cut at the same time population has been increasing. It could go further right or left.

[TonyHendrix]

53 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The Westminster model is pish but that doesn't mean the independent Scotland model won't be worse.

As i've said Austria and Denmark are not similar countries to Scotland today or Scotland after an independence vote. It's complete ignorance to say they are.

Well we will soon find out.

Put it this way,if you are more than happy with the way the Tories are running the country then more fool you.

The proof was there for everyone to see when Britain was in 19th place in the European economy,just a place above Russia. 

 

 

[Zern]

Times are tough. I wonder what the tory plan will be to adjust to this? Will it be austerity or more austerity. Perhaps they'll try austerity?

Remember the first time we got austerity? Those were the good days.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

1 hour ago, Jeff Venom said:

Vote for a party post-independence that would run on bringing it all back into public ownership then.
You absolutely know that this isn't going to happen at UK level, so my statement being dumb or otherwise is irrelevant.
Why not be pragmatic about it?

This is the one that always tickles me. 

Why do people think under a PR system Scotland wouldn't be a blend of SNP/Labour/Tory with a sprinkle of Greens. 

If Scotland was so progressive and left leaning such parties would already exist and have support presently. What's stopping them now? 

The people that say if you dislike the SNP then the best thing to do is to vote Yes and they'll go and fade away can't possibly believe this themselves, it's nowhere near a likely scenario.

I would hate it to happen but would love to see some parallel world where Scotland votes for Yes and then elects a Scottish Tory government. 

[git-intae-thum]

Just a quick off the cuff thought....for example..... nationalisation of the crown estates and the associated leasing rights. An absolute windfall for the public purse given Scotland's shoreline.

This is the kind of policy a UK government would never consider

[Jeff Venom]

This is the one that always tickles me. 
Why do people think under a PR system Scotland wouldn't be a blend of SNP/Labour/Tory with a sprinkle of Greens. 
If Scotland was so progressive and left leaning such parties would already exist and have support presently. What's stopping them now? 
The people that say if you dislike the SNP then the best thing to do is to vote Yes and they'll go and fade away can't possibly believe this themselves, it's nowhere near a likely scenario.
I would hate it to happen but would love to see some parallel world where Scotland votes for Yes and then elects a Scottish Tory government. 

I personally wouldn't like it, but that Tory government would have been voted in by the residents of Scotland. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with this.