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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

I’ll await the subsequent papers they’ve promised on currency etc before taking this push seriously. I have a feeling this was all a bit performative yesterday but fingers crossed it wasn’t.

Notably they are still refusing to commit to a date for a formal section 30 request so I’m not quite sure what the plan is here.

I am praying they can give a serious answer on currency and the like because I don’t think they did that in 2014 and if they can’t this time round it won’t be successful. 

Agreed. I feel like it's just to put more pressure on the ukgov. I don't think sturgeon will go for it without 'permission' as it runs the risk of not being recognised and ending up in the courts. 

Next election in 2024 where indy will be the sole focus/policy is my guess as to what will happen.

 

In other news, the problems are piling up for the ukgov as the Rwanda flight is halted and the EU have finally lost patience and are taking them to court.

Gammons in meltdown all over these isles, you love to see it!

 

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9 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

This is idiotic. Brexit is a direct result of the decades long conflict within the Conservative party between the crazy English/British nationalist wing and the old pro Europe one nation branch.

One nation Cameron held a referendum to call out the crazies. The crazies appealed to the base instincts of the double digit IQ masses and the crazies won.

[email protected] all to do with Scotland...everything to do with an idealogical struggle within a foreign political party........but we are stuck with a decision.....not made by us.....that will do decades of harm to us.

The conflict within the Tories was only brought about because people have different opinions on the issue.. hardly unheard of.

At the end of the day, it was put to the British people in the form of a vote, and people voted to leave.  I voted Leave, but my decision was soft and last minute.  I could see both pros and cons on both sides, and still do.

You can characterise the Leave voters as crazies and thick all you like, but I don't think that's the case.  Even if it was, we are all human beings of equal value, and people crazy and/or thick doesn't mean their vote should count as less.

A guy in my lodge has a downs syndrome granddaughter and I'm proud to call her as a friend.  A sweeter, kinder person you'll never meet, but she is slow and doesn't always take process things the way someone blessed with high cognitive function would.  We need to get by this idea of judging those with a low IQ IMO.

The threat of UKIP was the main reason for the referendum IMO, and that only happened due to more and more people deciding we could leave the EU.  There were prominent euro sceptic Tories who kept their mouths shut for years, but UKIP's rise forced them into action.

The Tories are not a foreign political party, what utter nonsense.  38% of the Scottish voters voted to leave the EU, only 6.7% less than who voted for separation.  The decision WAS indeed made by us, along with the residents of England, NI and wales.

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19 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

Agreed. I feel like it's just to put more pressure on the ukgov. I don't think sturgeon will go for it without 'permission' as it runs the risk of not being recognised and ending up in the courts. 

Next election in 2024 where indy will be the sole focus/policy is my guess as to what will happen.

 

In other news, the problems are piling up for the ukgov as the Rwanda flight is halted and the EU have finally lost patience and are taking them to court.

Gammons in meltdown all over these isles, you love to see it!

 

I thought we were having a referendum in 2023?

Unfortunately for people like yourself you're still hooked on the copium that Westminster being shit will lead to people supporting SI. It just doesn't quite work like that. Your side needs to start convincing people on the arguments that have if anything got worse since 2014. "Toaries bad" doesn't explain away currency, pensions, borders, EU entry, Brexit issues, nuclear arguments etc...

At this point it's like advising someone with a broken arm to hack it off with a rusty saw. 

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2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I’ll await the subsequent papers they’ve promised on currency etc before taking this push seriously. I have a feeling this was all a bit performative yesterday but fingers crossed it wasn’t.

Notably they are still refusing to commit to a date for a formal section 30 request so I’m not quite sure what the plan is here.

I am praying they can give a serious answer on currency and the like because I don’t think they did that in 2014 and if they can’t this time round it won’t be successful. 

Aye that's my thoughts, it's a good chuckle on here pointing and laughing at Kincardine, however it's also a bit of an echo chamber in here with regards to pro independence voters, without a currency answer I don't see us winning. 

 

And regardless, I don't see us having a vote anytime soon, very Scunnered. 

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1 hour ago, DAFC. said:

As much as it is funny watching the meltdown from the Unionists, given the most of them have no legitimate arguments and are just a seething mess, without a good argument for currency and pensions from the pro-Indy in government, it'll be another No vote. 

The pensions question is easy, if you pay your national insurance and then leave the UK you are still entitled to your pension, that and the UK don't have a ring fenced pot so in the future Scotland could create a pot or as it is now the working population pay the pension of the retired folk. This will come to a head regardless of if we choose independence when the liability becomes larger than the cash generated, but I would say we have a better chance of dealing with that by tapping into the massive renewable market we have at our disposal.

Currency is a harder one to argue, I would probably go for the Euro in the medium term with a referendum held 10 years after this vote on the future currency of Scotland.

Of course there are already parts of the United Kingdom that use the Euro like our friends in Akrotiri and Dhekelia.

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2 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Aye that's my thoughts, it's a good chuckle on here pointing and laughing at Kincardine, however it's also a bit of an echo chamber in here with regards to pro independence voters, without a currency answer I don't see us winning. 

 

And regardless, I don't see us having a vote anytime soon, very Scunnered. 

Aye, my reaction yesterday was similar to how I react to every latest iteration of Aberdeen’s  new stadium project. 

I’ll believe it when I see it. 

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1 hour ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

 

The threat of UKIP was the main reason for the referendum IMO, and that only happened due to more and more people deciding we could leave the EU.  There were prominent euro sceptic Tories who kept their mouths shut for years, but UKIP's rise forced them into action.

 

The above has some validity. UKIP (a total irrelevance in Scotland btw and no real threat to the wider political landscape)......were starting to eat in to the right wing of the Conservative party. The Tories feared haemorrhageing votes to them in Midland and Southern marginals. Cameron tried to head them off and silence the Eurosceptics in his own party with the referendum. He obviously failed drastically. It was all about saving the Tory party. 

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13 hours ago, Zern said:

That and the EU will actually assist Scotland with funding, because they are not incompetent.

Although not the most outrageous of the false statements in your post, I have picked this one as it is the easiest to refute.  Scotland would be a net contributer to the EU, not a recipient of funding.

Edited by strichener
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13 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

You seem to think that partitioning Britain has some geopolitical resonance.  It doesn't.

It's all about a shower of daft xenophobes - neds, boors and Shinners - wanting a chap from Eyemouth having to cross an international border to go 10 miles for his messages in Berwick.

It is nasty and pernicious.

I do feel a wee bit sorry for that imaginary chap from Eyemouth who desperately wants to get his messages in Berwick.

Is this where unionism is at?

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Bottom line is if the Yoons  were convinced they'd win IndyRef2 we'd be having it next week, it's gonna happen and the more prevarication from the Yoons  the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

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27 minutes ago, btb said:

Bottom line is if the Yoons  were convinced they'd win IndyRef2 we'd be having it next week, it's gonna happen and the more prevarication from the Yoons  the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

Silly post. Why would they agree to this anyway? Saying "you're too scared" is a primary school level argument, Unionists can be confident and not want to have referendums every second week. 

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22 minutes ago, strichener said:

Although not the most outrageous of the false statements in your post, I have picked this one as it is the easiest to refute.  Scotland would be a net contributer to the EU, not a recipient of funding.

I not going to contest that this is the goal, being successful enough to become a net contributor to the EU project. But the dingus i was responding to was coming out with the tired old trope that austerity would be the direct result of independence, when it is clear that EU membership is the goal. We are not trying to recreate Brexit after all and the EU has mechanisms to assist ascension:

Overview - Instrument for Pre-accession Assistance (europa.eu)

Because they are not incompetent. Now these are measures for nation states that are in much worse condition than Scotland, but if assistance is needed we can expect it. The EU is not hostile towards ascending members.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I thought we were having a referendum in 2023?

Unfortunately for people like yourself you're still hooked on the copium that Westminster being shit will lead to people supporting SI. It just doesn't quite work like that. Your side needs to start convincing people on the arguments that have if anything got worse since 2014. "Toaries bad" doesn't explain away currency, pensions, borders, EU entry, Brexit issues, nuclear arguments etc...

At this point it's like advising someone with a broken arm to hack it off with a rusty saw. 

Maybe we will ? I've just mentioned my opinion on what I think will happen.

I also haven't mentioned my opinion on Scottish independence or even 'toaries bad' as you say.

I actually agree with you that the yes side need to give solid answers on currency and pensions amongst others.

The nuclear question is a massive ace in negotiations for the yes side as the ukgov have nowhere else to locate them.

Try and play the ball and not the man in future sunshine. I promise you that you'll feel better for it. 

 

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1 minute ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Silly post. Why would they agree to this anyway? Saying "you're too scared" is a primary school level argument, Unionists can be confident and not want to have referendums every second week. 

At the same time, Unionist parties can't complain about years of dominance by the constitutional question over 'day job' type politics if they aren't willing to test the proposition to try and put it to bed.

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6 minutes ago, renton said:

At the same time, Unionist parties can't complain about years of dominance by the constitutional question over 'day job' type politics if they aren't willing to test the proposition to try and put it to bed.

So then this is where the discussion would move on to how often do we "test" this thing that we have "tested" before and we all actually already know the answer to.  I don't believe for one second a 2023 would put anything to bed and by a lot of the logic on here it shouldn't and we would have referendums every cycle of government the SNP win. 

7 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

Maybe we will ? I've just mentioned my opinion on what I think will happen.

I also haven't mentioned my opinion on Scottish independence or even 'toaries bad' as you say.

I actually agree with you that the yes side need to give solid answers on currency and pensions amongst others.

The nuclear question is a massive ace in negotiations for the yes side as the ukgov have nowhere else to locate them.

Try and play the ball and not the man in future sunshine. I promise you that you'll feel better for it. 

 

I wasnt aware I actually did that, perhaps you read too much into my post. I wad just using it as a general point to reply to, nothing personal. 

Also as an aside it's hilarious to see anyone saying that at someone like myself who almost never ever has the ball played fairly on here. 

Edited by Albus Bulbasaur
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2 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

So then this is where the discussion would move on to how often do we "test" this thing that we all actually already know. I don't believe for one second a 2023 would put anything to bed and by a lot of the logic on here it shouldn't and we would have referendums every cycle of government the SNP win

If they can prove its in the devolved competence to do then there is no reason why they couldn't hold one every time there is a mandate to do so, that said I don't buy that council elections are a mandate to hold an Independence referendum and if it's in the competence of the Scottish parliament then the UK parliamentary elections would cease to be a provision for a mandate for independence referendums

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On 14/06/2022 at 12:48, sophia said:

Super smashing great!

Even before the announcement we had professor Jim Gallagher comparing Ruth Wishart, Ruth Wishart for goodness sake, to the worst of the brexity britnats and this morning someone very shouty being rationally out debated by Lesley Riddoch.

The lashing out, as evidenced here, has a fetid and primaeval desperation that is so unattractive.

In fairness Mhairi Hunter is right up there with the brexity ranty people. 

4 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I’ll await the subsequent papers they’ve promised on currency etc before taking this push seriously. I have a feeling this was all a bit performative yesterday but fingers crossed it wasn’t.

Notably they are still refusing to commit to a date for a formal section 30 request so I’m not quite sure what the plan is here.

I am praying they can give a serious answer on currency and the like because I don’t think they did that in 2014 and if they can’t this time round it won’t be successful. 

Why not just commit to a Scottish Currency we would get support from the imf/eu etc to put in place our central bank and tbh im fine with going to the Euro when conditions are met. Join the Eu. 

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2 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

So then this is where the discussion would move on to how often do we "test" this thing that we have "tested" before and we all actually already know the answer to.  I don't believe for one second a 2023 would put anything to bed and by a lot of the logic on here it shouldn't and we would have referendums every cycle of government the SNP win. 

I wasnt aware I actually did that, perhaps you read too much into my post. I wad just using it as a general point to reply to, nothing personal. 

Also as an aside it's hilarious to see anyone saying that at someone like myself who almost never ever has the ball played fairly on here. 

As many times as the Scottish people decide. That's democracy.

I do feel though that if a second indyref is lost, the momentum will have been lost and would be years before tested again, if at all. 

Then again, the world is changing rapidly and the fabric of the Union is being stretched so who knows what the future holds?

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