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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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1 minute ago, Antlion said:

And then began supporting Brexit and, when the Tories gained their majority, claimed you were glad Brexit was happening. I’m sure your being won round by how it unfolded would please Johnson more than he’d be pleased by the idiots he initially conned but who ended up with buyer’s remorse.

As soon as Leave won the referendum leaving the EU was inevitable. 

The Second Referendum nonsense was devised wholly to damage Corbyn after the strong result in 2017. 

 

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2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

People who claim that they want Independence whilst stating they won’t vote SNP lack credibility.

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF

 

Christ, you're wild. What on earth would I have to gain from "claiming" to support Independence? It'd be one hell of a long guise. 

 

You're absolutely wild. 

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35 minutes ago, Detournement said:

As soon as Leave won the referendum leaving the EU was inevitable. 

The Second Referendum nonsense was devised wholly to damage Corbyn after the strong result in 2017. 

 

And I’m sure Johnson was delighted that so many were not only accepting of Brexit, but “glad” it was happening under his rule. Exactly what he needed and needs are gullible converts who profess themselves glad with the direction of the ship he chose to steer.

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Because I think the measures are simply too heavy handed and excessive. 
If the variant is so severe we need to be putting restrictions on then I don't get why we need to wait four? Days for the restrictions to be imposed either. 
Because there will always be arseholes who would ignore the rules and party like it's 1999 if the restrictions were brought in immediately. This way we get to have a reasonable Xmas and then a restricted new year.
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36 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF

 

Christ, you're wild. What on earth would I have to gain from "claiming" to support Independence? It'd be one hell of a long guise. 

 

You're absolutely wild. 

You’re not the only person on P&B to make the claim.  Like I say their is no credibility in claiming a desire for Independence yet denying support for its only credible vehicle.  It’s an irrational stance.

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20 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

You can count out the years 2015, 2016, 2017 we were never going to have a referendum so soon after 2014. The first positive case of Covid in Scotland was 1st March 2020 and we've been playing catchup ever since so that's the last year and a half effectively ruled out.  That leaves you 2018 and 2019 but we hadn't been dragged out of the EU by then, that happened on the 1st January 2020.  SO that leaves you the first two months of 2020 when we could conceivably have had a referendum and the Scottish Government "failed their mandate".

It was a UK election, sport.  The mandate for Indy lies in Holyrood.

You've made a decent attempt at explaining the SNP's inaction, and you're correct that the pandemic has been going on longer than one year.  

In my opinion, the "we had to wait to be dragged out of the EU" argument is pure semantics.  Any arrangement between the British and the EU, without our consent, is equally egregious.  It also doesn't explain the complete lack of policy on independence, how we will gain it and what it will look like, since the indyref.  

You're right that the mandate to proceed with independence lies at Holyrood.  Another poster mentioned that, according to polling, the SNP on course to win 59 out of 59 of the Westminster seats.  They had 56 before, under the present management.  I think nationalists are right to be asking at this point, what difference will that make, if those MPs have no intention of forming an independent government in Edinburgh?  The same question can be posed for Holyrood.  

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45 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

You’re not the only person on P&B to make the claim.  Like I say their is no credibility in claiming a desire for Independence yet denying support for its only credible vehicle.  It’s an irrational stance.

Many defectors to Alba have done so because they think the SNP aren't a credible vehicle for partition though.

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1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

You’re not the only person on P&B to make the claim.  Like I say their is no credibility in claiming a desire for Independence yet denying support for its only credible vehicle.  It’s an irrational stance.

Ah yes Granny Danger, for I have posted for many years about supporting independence and the snp, just on the off chance a global pandemic would come along where after two years of various restrictions I would turn heel and be fucked of by the way the SNP is being run. 

 

If I had foresight as good as that I would've used its powers for something useful, christ. 

 

I support Scottish Independence, in it currnent form I do not support the SNP, I also don't support Alba and they also support independence, hth. 

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:
9 hours ago, Grant228 said:
Because its another policy/decision that I simply don't agree with. 

Even though it's the right thing to do. Got it.

If that's what you think chief. 

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10 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Ah yes Granny Danger, for I have posted for many years about supporting independence and the snp, just on the off chance a global pandemic would come along where after two years of various restrictions I would turn heel and be fucked of by the way the SNP is being run. 

 

If I had foresight as good as that I would've used its powers for something useful, christ. 

 

I support Scottish Independence, in it currnent form I do not support the SNP, I also don't support Alba and they also support independence, hth. 

If that's what you think chief. 

I do think sounding off is a good thing, best to let it out. After that passes, it can often leave space to reflect and in this instance allow you to declare who you do support....

 

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1 hour ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

In my opinion, the "we had to wait to be dragged out of the EU" argument is pure semantics.  

I think a lot of people forget that Sturgeon had been touting the idea of an indy referendum because of the result of the EU referendum and we promptly lost 21 seats in 2017.  That set us back through to 2018 and at least until the Brexit disaster started to be revealed under May. "We had to wait" isn't semantics it's the reality.

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

 I think nationalists are right to be asking at this point, what difference will that make, if those MPs have no intention of forming an independent government in Edinburgh?  The same question can be posed for Holyrood.  

The MPs won't be forming the government, it'll be the MSPs and if you don't think voting SNP is worthwhile, who is?  

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1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

That's the science, chief. Apart from viewers in England.

Is it? Surely science can only give you information, it's then upto the personal to interpret and decide what action is necessary? 

 

At what point do you put restrictions in? How severe does the illness need to be? Science doesn't have a set mark for "at x do x" if it did, we wouldn't have so many differing approaches to this. 

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1 minute ago, Grant228 said:

Is it? Surely science can only give you information, it's then upto the personal to interpret and decide what action is necessary? 

Is it bollocks.  You think Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid know what to do when faced with a 4x more infectious strain of disease in the middle of a pandemic that's killed 140,000 people so far?  Do they f**k.

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24 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Is it bollocks.  You think Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid know what to do when faced with a 4x more infectious strain of disease in the middle of a pandemic that's killed 140,000 people so far?  Do they f**k.

It's odd that you've mentioned that it's infectious, but not said anything about how it's less dangerous. 

 

Odd that. Has the omicron variant killed 140,000? Because that's what you've made it sound like there. 

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2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

I think a lot of people forget that Sturgeon had been touting the idea of an indy referendum because of the result of the EU referendum and we promptly lost 21 seats in 2017.  That set us back through to 2018 and at least until the Brexit disaster started to be revealed under May. "We had to wait" isn't semantics it's the reality.

The MPs won't be forming the government, it'll be the MSPs and if you don't think voting SNP is worthwhile, who is?  

I disagree that 21 seats were lost because of the idea of indyref2, I think they were lost because of an absence of any vision or incisive action by the party after the 2015 result.  People returned to the fold, to an extent, at the subsequent two UK elections out of desperation, more than hope or expectation, along with the catastrophic and duplicitous actions of the British government. 

In my opinion, the Scottish MPs elected from the final UK election in which Scotland is a part, or at least the front benchers, would help comprise the body which would negotiate independence, a national commission.  You're right though the independent government would be comprised of MSPs. 

I voted SNP my whole adult life, including the Holyrood election this summer, but I resigned to join ALBA, who I voted for on the list.  Leaving the SNP was decision I took with a heavy heart, because I used to consider the SNP as more than a party, but rather, Scotland's national movement.  I have to say though, I've never regretted it. 

I'm resolved to the conclusion that the SNP leadership have acquiesced to a role of colonial administration within the UK, and therefore, abdicated being the political vehicle to advance independence.  It's now a political vehicle to advance careerist, blandees.  Basically, New Labour 2.0.

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29 minutes ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

 

I'm resolved to the conclusion that the SNP leadership have acquiesced to a role of colonial administration within the UK, and therefore, abdicated being the political vehicle to advance independence.  It's now a political vehicle to advance careerist, blandees.  Basically, New Labour 2.0.

@Granny Danger The credibility on this guy eh? Totally lacking. 

 

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2 hours ago, Grant228 said:

It's odd that you've mentioned that it's infectious, but not said anything about how it's less dangerous. 

It's odd that you've not addressed my point at all.

2 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Odd that. Has the omicron variant killed 140,000? Because that's what you've made it sound like there. 

Odd that.  Because what I said was the pandemic has killed 140,000, not Omicron.  Odd in fucking deed.

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