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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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People have been critical of Sturgeon for months over ‘restrictions’.  Yet the most recent poll (less than three weeks old) showed that the SNP would win every one of the 59 seats at Westminster.
 
That's more to do with the paucity of the opposition and the reality that the only way independence can be delivered right now is the SNP.

A lot of people will continue to hold their noses and vote SNP. If there was a genuine alternative (and that isn't Alba) then would be in trouble.
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Guest Bob Mahelp
1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

You keep throwing in this Bolsonaro pish - no-one is really arguing for that - noblemen the tinfoil hatter that is H_B.

The restrictions announced yesterday were an utter joke aimed at completely the wrong target and undermining the get jabbed objective.

If the likes of Bully are resigning their SNP membership you know there is a problem.

Even without the actions on Covid I've been concerned about the increasingly Stalinist nature of the SNP. I've seen it at a local level where legitimate concerns are just ignored and there is little or no accountability of elected members.

The SNP are fortunate right now that the opposition are just so disorganised and probably worse regards restrictions or there would be a real problem.

Maybe you should try reading my other posts on this thread or in the politics section, before going off on one at me. 

To sum it up for you and make it easy.....I don't agree with the restrictions. I think that the SNP deserve a spell in opposition for the good of everyone. I've long thought that. I hope that's clear enough ? 

I use the phrase 'Bolsonaro-like' because that's exactly what some of the moonhowlers are calling for on the covid thread. Sorry if you think that's pish. 

 

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Maybe you should try reading my other posts on this thread or in the politics section, before going off on one at me. 
To sum it up for you and make it easy.....I don't agree with the restrictions. I think that the SNP deserve a spell in opposition for the good of everyone. I've long thought that. I hope that's clear enough ? 
I use the phrase 'Bolsonaro-like' because that's exactly what some of the moonhowlers are calling for on the covid thread. Sorry if you think that's pish. 
 


When I see Bolsonaro I think anti-vax and zero restrictions. The closest you might get is H_B with his conspiracy theory shite or Elixir - but even he supports vaccination as far as I can see.

I would say there's a lot outsude the usual suspects who have reluctantly gone along with some of the restrictions but feel that some things are just a step too far.

Outside of this forum I've seen increasing frustration from fairly sensible independence supporters at the increasingly conservative nature of the SNP. That's not just Sturgeon but the whole hierarchy.
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14 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That's more to do with the paucity of the opposition and the reality that the only way independence can be delivered right now is the SNP.

A lot of people will continue to hold their noses and vote SNP. If there was a genuine alternative (and that isn't Alba) then would be in trouble.

Not sure what your point is.  I see the SNP primarily as a means to an end, if there was a credible alternative offering the same I might vote for them myself.

People who claim the SNP/Independence movement is finished, or even significantly weakened, as a result of recent restrictions are deluding themselves.

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Guest Bob Mahelp
7 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:


 

 


When I see Bolsonaro I think anti-vax and zero restrictions. The closest you might get is H_B with his conspiracy theory shite or Elixir - but even he supports vaccination as far as I can see.

I would say there's a lot outsude the usual suspects who have reluctantly gone along with some of the restrictions but feel that some things are just a step too far.

Outside of this forum I've seen increasing frustration from fairly sensible independence supporters at the increasingly conservative nature of the SNP. That's not just Sturgeon but the whole hierarchy.

 

I'll re-post what I posted a few pages ago...

 

I've long said on here that under any normal set of circumstances, the SNP need a spell in opposition. No government anywhere worldwide, can stay in power for 14+ years without becoming stale. 

They need to re-invent themselves to a certain extent. A change of focus away from certain issues and a renewed focus on the bigger picture. 

Sadly, the SNP has went from the relatively liberal, progressive party it was 15 years ago, to become a party obsessed with government control and the kind of loony left-wing infighting that helped destroy Labour. 

As strongly as I believe that Nicola Sturgeon is the UK's most competent politician, the fact remains that in order to move forward a change of leadership at the top is badly needed. 

The reality is though that there is no opposition to the SNP in Scotland, so it's unlikely they'll lose power any time in the next decade. It wouldn't surprise me though if they slipped back to being a minority government again as they were in 2007, and having to find concensus with other parties to get policy through. 

It may not be a bad thing. 

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30 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I'll re-post what I posted a few pages ago...

 

I've long said on here that under any normal set of circumstances, the SNP need a spell in opposition. No government anywhere worldwide, can stay in power for 14+ years without becoming stale. 

They need to re-invent themselves to a certain extent. A change of focus away from certain issues and a renewed focus on the bigger picture. 

Sadly, the SNP has went from the relatively liberal, progressive party it was 15 years ago, to become a party obsessed with government control and the kind of loony left-wing infighting that helped destroy Labour. 

As strongly as I believe that Nicola Sturgeon is the UK's most competent politician, the fact remains that in order to move forward a change of leadership at the top is badly needed. 

The reality is though that there is no opposition to the SNP in Scotland, so it's unlikely they'll lose power any time in the next decade. It wouldn't surprise me though if they slipped back to being a minority government again as they were in 2007, and having to find concensus with other parties to get policy through. 

It may not be a bad thing. 

The best thing that can happen for Scotland is Independence, the reorganisation of the political party structure will be a natural follow on from this.

As to consensus, I think you’ll find that the SNP are already in coalition in Holyrood.

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Guest Bob Mahelp
14 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The best thing that can happen for Scotland is Independence, the reorganisation of the political party structure will be a natural follow on from this.

 

All true, I missed this out in my post. 

 

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12 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

As much as I didn't want any further restrictions today, I don't think you can judge a few angry posts on a football forum as representative of what the majority of people in Scotland think. 

Her inherent conservatism (small c, obviously) and excellent communication skills are very popular with large swathes of the Scottish population. 

I didn't want these restrictions, but why anyone actually expects her to be a Bolsonaro-type gambler and throw caution to the wind is beyond me. 

I'll pretty much guarantee you that her popularity with the Scottish electorate will be untouched by today's announcement. 

 

Tend to agree with this.

She cuts a fantastic promo, and any attempts to have her turn heel always fail.  She's tremendous on the mic and explains things so clearly.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of it will be fake, but that doesn't matter in politics.  What matters is how well she comes across, which is genuine and clear whilst being humble when need be.  Folk can relate to her more than anyone else.

I wish us Unionists had someone of her calibre.  Davidson was decent, but she's now in the Lords and being a Tory was always restricted in her appeal.

This knee-jerk Sturgeon hatred won't last more than a few days.

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I've never been a member of a political party but I'm now thinking of joining the SNP to demonstrate that the moonhowlers aren't perhaps making the dent they think they are. 😁

Anyone who favours independence who now won't vote SNP because of the response to covid needs more than a lateral flow or PCR test. They need their "heids looked"

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5 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I've never been a member of a political party but I'm now thinking of joining the SNP to demonstrate that the moonhowlers aren't perhaps making the dent they think they are. 😁

Anyone who favours independence who now won't vote SNP because of the response to covid needs more than a lateral flow or PCR test. They need their "heids looked"

I don’t pay much mind to the moon howlers but there’s a handful of previously rational posters who seem to have been sucked down the same rabbit hole.  Hopefully common sense will prevail through time.

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46 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

Tend to agree with this.

She cuts a fantastic promo, and any attempts to have her turn heel always fail.  She's tremendous on the mic and explains things so clearly.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of it will be fake, but that doesn't matter in politics.  What matters is how well she comes across, which is genuine and clear whilst being humble when need be.  Folk can relate to her more than anyone else.

I wish us Unionists had someone of her calibre.  Davidson was decent, but she's now in the Lords and being a Tory was always restricted in her appeal.

This knee-jerk Sturgeon hatred won't last more than a few days.

 

You underestimate me, mate. My hatred will only grow. 😀

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Was there no other alternative like? Sturgeon couldn't have done anything else? 
Wales orders rule of six in pubs from Boxing Day with just 30 people indoors at events

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-wales-orders-rule-six-25763884?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Indoor events of more than 30 people will be banned and outdoor events of more than 50 people will be banned.

Apparently not.
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1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I've never been a member of a political party but I'm now thinking of joining the SNP to demonstrate that the moonhowlers aren't perhaps making the dent they think they are. 😁

Anyone who favours independence who now won't vote SNP because of the response to covid needs more than a lateral flow or PCR test. They need their "heids looked"

Why? It's very much straw that broke the camels back territory, I don't beleive that blindly voting the snp regardless of how bad they do helps matters, the lack of progress made on independence has been grating amongst other matters. As Bob mahelp has said a couple of times, any party that's been in power for as long as the snp has could probably do with a spell in opposition, or at least in a minority government. I'll vote for independence if a referendum does come around, but I'm not voting for the snp in there current guise. 

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

I don’t pay much mind to the moon howlers but there’s a handful of previously rational posters who seem to have been sucked down the same rabbit hole.  Hopefully common sense will prevail through time.

See below with regards to echo chambers. 

3 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

You've probably being spending too much time in tiny echo chambers, reading what you want to read. 

 

That's exactly what this part of the forum tends to be surely? Any dissenting voice is either labelled as an alias, a moon howler etc etc. There's no debate, just sneering contempt. 

It's one of the reasons I stopped looking on here a while back. 

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Guest Bob Mahelp
2 hours ago, BFTD said:

Quite liking quiet Mrs McMillan fae Ardrossan, BTW. Sounds like a wid.

She's the type of woman who can be whatever you want her to be. ...

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Guest Bob Mahelp
1 hour ago, Grant228 said:

 

See below with regards to echo chambers. 

That's exactly what this part of the forum tends to be surely? Any dissenting voice is either labelled as an alias, a moon howler etc etc. There's no debate, just sneering contempt. 

It's one of the reasons I stopped looking on here a while back. 

Good point bud. 

I'm trying hard to appreciate more points of view of here.....I might not agree with them, but at least I can learn to respect what others post without flying off the handle every time. 

I hope you don't feel I was treating your posts with contempt. 👍

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1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Good point bud. 

I'm trying hard to appreciate more points of view of here.....I might not agree with them, but at least I can learn to respect what others post without flying off the handle every time. 

I hope you don't feel I was treating your posts with contempt. 👍

Oh you absolutely weren't, I was enjoying your take on it, was put together really well. 

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