When will indyref2 happen?

[SANTAN]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

Could do without that image! However, it is interesting to reflect on the aftermath of the “no” vote in 2014. Yes, there was the triumphalist international embarrassment of extremist bigots goose-stepping through George Square, but I seem to recall the general atmosphere being very flat and gloomy. It was hardly a time of street parties and the majority (whether “no” or “yes”) seemed to be going through a period of anticlimax as the world shrugged its shoulders and looked away.

By contrast, I reckon a “yes” vote would see a massive outpouring of festivity and ongoing international interest in Scotland, followed by a renewal of the arts and increased political activity.

You live within your head. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Just now, Antlion said:

Could do without that image! However, it is interesting to reflect on the aftermath of the “no” vote in 2014. Yes, there was the triumphalist international embarrassment of extremist bigots goose-stepping through George Square, but I seem to recall the general atmosphere being very flat and gloomy. It was hardly a time of street parties and the majority (whether “no” or “yes”) seemed to be going through a period of anticlimax as the world shrugged its shoulders and looked away.

By contrast, I reckon a “yes” vote would see a massive outpouring of festivity and ongoing international interest in Scotland, followed by a renewal of the arts and increased political activity.

Aye, do you know what I enjoyed most about the campaign in 2014, for the first time ever all the focus of our politics and media was actually on Scotland. That must be what normal countries feel like all the time, we were important for a wee while.

The party after a yes vote and the meltdown from the unionists would be just too incredible for words. A thousand years worth of GIFs.

[GTG_03]

25 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

It's the same thing. To be pro Scotland would be to support the Union. 

We want to be thriving not self harming. 

It's really not. Unionist parties have no interest in a thriving Scotland as it proves the viability and normality if independence.

Therefore they are pro union and not pro scotland.

[Whitburn Vale]

27 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

It's the same thing. To be pro Scotland would be to support the Union. 

We want to be thriving not self harming. 

Absolute pish....

[Guest TheJTS98]

36 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Look at the map below and consider where the Scottish territorial waters would be. An independent Scotland in the EU means rUK is almost an EU enclave. rUK does not hold all the aces in controlling sea territory by any means. rUK will be mighty thankful the EEAs of Ireland and France don’t quite touch!

 

That's exactly why we'd be at risk.

[Dawson Park Boy]

57 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

This is really 19th century thinking.  England isn't likely to invade in a hundred years time. They will attempt to exploit us economically as any bigger country would, but for a short time we could actually be the ones doing the exploiting as we will be in the EU and they won't.

I don't expect that to last though, I have no doubt iEngland will rejoin the EU relatively soon.  

If you're worried about Scotland's independence long-term the way that is dealt with is in the constitution. iScotland would have a constitution, I'm not sure what their plan is but lets say they want a bicameral parliament which to me is the best model, you just have it written that in order for Scotland's independence to be revoked it would require a referendum where 75%+1 people voted for it (could even make it electorate not turnout), and a vote in both chambers where 75%+1 voted for it too. Never gonna happen. 

We will be the part of the British Isles with all the water, gas and oil. Especially water is going to become incredibly important. We should be robust, forward thinking and innovative with our attitude to trade with a tiny bit of altruism thrown in towards the neoliberal shithole developing down south just to show we're good people and bear no hard feelings. And when the time comes we should absolutely support their EU application vocally and vociferously. 

Also, post iScotland rUK will eventually lose its permanent UNSC seat most likely. Which will be quite funny, but what will be even more funny will be when it goes to the EU.  That would give us an international body we are part of that we could rely on to keep any nutcase who ever got into Downing St in check.

How do you know Scotland will be in the EU?

[Guest TheJTS98]

53 minutes ago, Enigma said:

1) I don’t really see how the geopolitical position of Poland, sitting in the middle of the European plain with few geographical barriers to the west or east is comparable to Scotland

2) The old Kingdom of Scotland historically checked possible threats from England by allying with France, breaking down post reformation. Aligning to the EU a modern independent Scotland effectively returns to moderating English dominance over the British Isles by having powerful friends on the continent.

 

1) No geographical barriers to a larger neighbour with designs on our territory for reasons we cannot change. Exactly the same situation.

2) Yet we ended up... There's no reason to assume we'd be any more successful long-term in the future.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

25 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Could do without that image! However, it is interesting to reflect on the aftermath of the “no” vote in 2014. Yes, there was the triumphalist international embarrassment of extremist bigots goose-stepping through George Square, but I seem to recall the general atmosphere being very flat and gloomy. It was hardly a time of street parties and the majority (whether “no” or “yes”) seemed to be going through a period of anticlimax as the world shrugged its shoulders and looked away.

By contrast, I reckon a “yes” vote would see a massive outpouring of festivity and ongoing international interest in Scotland, followed by a renewal of the arts and increased political activity.

I want our independence to be a celebration of Scotland as an entity taking its place in the world, invite world leaders, show people our amazing wee country is open to the world, showcase our talents, our countryside, our technology, the things that make us great. A massive ceremony in independence day across Scotlands two greatest cities, Glasgow and Dundee to mark the movement of the Scottish parliament to Glasgow and the second chamber to Dundee. ok that last part wont happen for now, but it’ll be funny to see the outpouring of seethe from unionist strongholds. 
After the last indy ref Scotland became a bit of a laughing stock in the world for shiteing it, met people from other countries that left the UK and they couldnt fathom why we didnt. 

[DA Baracus]

16 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

This seems like a surefire winning strategy for the Unionists.

'Forward thinking', so much so that they left the EU because of racism.

They vote to starve kids.

15 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

One of my frustrations about the discussion & dialogue around indyref2 & a mandate is the Greens oft get sidelined despite being a pro-independence party & the 4th biggest party at Holyrood tied* with those beige bãstards in the Lib Dems who are a 'major party'. Imo the SNP will win a majority but even if they didn't adding the SNP & Green numbers together is a mandate & sign of a desire for independence from the electorate.

*- The Greens elected one more but now tied due to Andy Wightman leaving the party & now sitting as an independent.

 

You know they'll move the goalposts yet again, no matter how many conditions are met.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

1) No geographical barriers to a larger neighbour with designs on our territory for reasons we cannot change. Exactly the same situation.

2) Yet we ended up... There's no reason to assume we'd be any more successful long-term in the future.

Yeah the conditions and events of five hundred years ago are absolutely guaranteed to be replicated in the 21st century, good point.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I want our independence to be a celebration of Scotland as an entity taking its place in the world, invite world leaders, show people our amazing wee country is open to the world, showcase our talents, our countryside, our technology, the things that make us great. A massive ceremony in independence day across Scotlands two greatest cities, Glasgow and Dundee to mark the movement of the Scottish parliament to Glasgow and the second chamber to Dundee. ok that last part wont happen for now, but it’ll be funny to see the outpouring of seethe from unionist strongholds. 
After the last indy ref Scotland became a bit of a laughing stock in the world for shiteing it, met people from other countries that left the UK and they couldnt fathom why we didnt. 

Yeah I met a few guys from India and they were openly laughing at us, like out loud, saying they always thought we were a proud country etc.

[Guest TheJTS98]

14 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Yeah the conditions and events of five hundred years ago are absolutely guaranteed to be replicated in the 21st century, good point.

Well, if you look around the world, you'll see plenty of similar situations.

Taiwan is unlikely to be able to stop China harassing it. Ukraine became independent in 1991 and has already given up territory to Russia, which continues to meddle in most of its former colonies' politics. Nepal and Bhutan will never be free from the meddling of their larger neighbours. Pakistan can't keep out of Afghanistan and never will. The USA throws its weight about in relation to Mexico all the time.

There's nothing special about England. It'll behave in the same way.

Scotland's best bet is getting into the EU and into NATO. However, neither of those organisations will last forever. They have had weaknesses exposed recently. And England will, of course, use anything it can within those organisations to undermine Scotland long-term. It's fantasy to think otherwise.

Our geographical problem with England will out-last both NATO and the EU.

Edited January 25, 2021 by TheJTS98

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Just now, TheJTS98 said:

Well, if you look around the world you'll see plenty of similar situations.

Taiwan is unlikely to be able to stop China harassing it. Ukraine became independent in 1991 and has already given up territory to Russia, which continues to meddle in its former colonies' politics.. Nepal and Bhutan will never be free from the meddling of their larger neighbours.

There's nothing special about England. It'll behave in the same way.

Scotland's best bet is getting into the EU and into NATO. However, neither of those organisations will last forever. They have had weaknesses exposed recently. And England will, of course, use anything it can within those organisations to undermine Scotland long-term. It's fantasy to think otherwise.

Our geographical problem with England will out-last both NATO and the EU.

Of course it will as it preceded them too, but none of those situations are remotely comparable. If you want to really push the boat the border are very pro union and contiguous to England, its not impossible to envisage a scenario where they would choose to join England and that would allow England to claim a little more oil and especially gas.  But that's it really.

We're literally going to be in a position where we can shut off their water at the flick of a switch and plunge half the country into darkness as about 52% of their power will come from us.  

[HTG]

19 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

How do you know Scotland will be in the EU?

Scotland will be rushed into the EU at high speed. It's an absolute no brainer on the EU's part. If "you'll not be able to join the EU" forms any part of the No campaign then No is utterly fucked. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just now, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Of course it will as it preceded them too, but none of those situations are remotely comparable. If you want to really push the boat the border are very pro union and contiguous to England, its not impossible to envisage a scenario where they would choose to join England and that would allow England to claim a little more oil and especially gas.  But that's it really.

We're literally going to be in a position where we can shut off their water at the flick of a switch and plunge half the country into darkness as about 52% of their power will come from us.  

Just to say, I would absolutely never be in favour of the latter and to even threaten that is imho ‘unscottish’. England is our neighbour, I love the English and would never want to see them suffer. 

[Guest TheJTS98]

2 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Of course it will as it preceded them too, but none of those situations are remotely comparable. If you want to really push the boat the border are very pro union and contiguous to England, its not impossible to envisage a scenario where they would choose to join England and that would allow England to claim a little more oil and especially gas.  But that's it really.

We're literally going to be in a position where we can shut off their water at the flick of a switch and plunge half the country into darkness as about 52% of their power will come from us.  

Yip. And that's a situation that would be a dream for any aggressive government in England in the future. They'd simply be acting 'to protect ourselves from the provocative actions of the Edinburgh government'.

As old as the hills.

[SANTAN]

39 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Absolute pish....

Would you rather be thriving or self harming? 

[SANTAN]

15 minutes ago, HTG said:

Scotland will be rushed into the EU at high speed. It's an absolute no brainer on the EU's part. If "you'll not be able to join the EU" forms any part of the No campaign then No is utterly fucked. 

Any source to back this up?

[SANTAN]

41 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

It's really not. Unionist parties have no interest in a thriving Scotland as it proves the viability and normality if independence.

Therefore they are pro union and not pro scotland.

Scotland thriving within the Union proves viability and normality of Independence...?

And this has an upvote. The standards in this thread are bottom of the barrel stuff. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

16 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Just to say, I would absolutely never be in favour of the latter and to even threaten that is imho ‘unscottish’. England is our neighbour, I love the English and would never want to see them suffer. 

Nobody would, but that will be the reality of the situation, and those governing England will know that better than anyone.  That would temper any aggressive tendencies immediately.

If all this had any credibility at all, why haven't we invaded ROI?  Why does nobody even discuss it? Cause its nonsense.