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When will indyref2 happen?

Indyref2  

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1 hour ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Don't know if I'd go as far as not voting for independence but if the reactionary wing of the party ever took charge then the prospectus for independence would be significantly worse and I don't think it helps to ignore that.

Of course there is the flip side of that as well - the fact that the establishment wing of the party is also unsatisfactory. People like Andrew Wilson, Angus Robertson and the like are equally unlikely to help create an inspiring reason to vote yes. Couple this with the fact that all the major fault lines seem to be on culture war stuff like trans rights, on which the leadership is at least nominally on the progressive side, and it's hard to see where the space is for proper left wing pressure in the party. 

There is a basic impulse in the party that is sympathetic to being a bit more radical on loads of issues. Unfortunately the nature of our party means that often is not channelled towards good left wing politics but baseless bullshit from self-serving narcissists looking to raise their profile (and using our bizarre cottage industry of independent media, blogs and the national to do so). 

Of course - all of this does hint at another good reason for independence. If the political parties ever realigned to have a proper left/right divide as opposed to yes/no, we'd be able to have ideologically coherent parties and fight the real battles. In that sense, the real fear with independence is that we do an Ireland - have 100 years of alternating rule between 2 centrist/centre right nationalist parties based on a relatively obscure fissure in the independence movement at the moment of its greatest triumph. 

Its not that id vote ‘against’ it, its just any real enthusiasm that people like Angus Macneil and Mceleny would make things ‘better’ would be very doubtful. Id probably still vote for it but not as gleefully. 

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52 minutes ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

I should say as well - maybe it's not 100% doom and gloom. The party has in recent times raised taxes on high earners, and also raised benefit levels. Just today a new benefit was introduced aimed at pulling kids out of poverty. These are real redistributive measures that shouldn't be minimised. 

I guess what pisses me off about the party is that it feels like things like that are not nearly as important to most of the membership and most of the parliamentarians as the various nonsense that the yer da side and the centrist side come out with. I basically trust that the FM has decent politics, but beyond that? It is hard to pick out senior MSPs or MPs who I would trust to do the right thing where it came to e.g taxation, regulation, benefits, trade union rights, immigration other than spouting platitudes etc etc. 

Agree with this. Independent sovereign statehood doesn’t make things better. It provides the means to make things better.

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4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Its not that id vote ‘against’ it, its just any real enthusiasm that people like Angus Macneil and Mceleny would make things ‘better’ would be very doubtful. Id probably still vote for it but not as gleefully. 

Feel free to vote for whoever you like afterwards.  Independence isn't a party political issue.

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Independence is Scotlands future to enable us to be free from a foreign country making decisions on Scotlands  welfare and financial structure that we have endured for too long.

Until we gain that we will always remain servile  in an imbalanced union. 

 

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12 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Feel free to vote for whoever you like afterwards.  Independence isn't a party political issue.

I think people will feel free to vote whoever they want whenever they want tbh 

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Kinda worrying that if Scotland fail to get to the Euros, it looks like we won't be allowed to compete in international football for a lifetime.

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53 minutes ago, Andre Drazen said:

I think people will feel free to vote whoever they want whenever they want tbh 

Maybe this is who Ruthy meant by burly men asking who you're voting for

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12 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18859654.just-four-people-complain-scottish-government-indyref2/

Only four people have complained to the Scottish Government about indyref2

Ok, I'll take a stab. 

Ruth Davidson, Douglas Ross, Alistair Jack and the twitter troll that runs their social media pages. 

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19 minutes ago, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:

Ok, I'll take a stab. 

Ruth Davidson, Douglas Ross, Alistair Jack and the twitter troll that runs their social media pages. 

Neil Oliver using 4 different aliases, imo.

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3 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Neil Oliver using 4 different aliases, imo.

British Alba.

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6 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Independence is Scotlands future to enable us to be free from a foreign country making decisions on Scotlands  welfare and financial structure that we have endured for too long.

Until we gain that we will always remain servile  in an imbalanced union. 

 

So you want to be free from the foreign country that is our neighbour and biggest trading partner, to then join the Euro, the EU and then let even more foreign countries make decisions for you. That seems like a really good idea.

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3 minutes ago, Glen Sannox said:

So you want to be free from the foreign country that is our neighbour and biggest trading partner, to then join the Euro, the EU and then let even more foreign countries make decisions for you. That seems like a really good idea.

See joining a union where you’re actually listened to and valued, i’d be alright with that, a currency like the euro isn’t a bad thing either. 

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6 minutes ago, Glen Sannox said:

So you want to be free from the foreign country that is our neighbour and biggest trading partner, to then join the Euro, the EU and then let even more foreign countries make decisions for you. That seems like a really good idea.

An absolute yes to the first part.

And an absolute yes to the second to have an equal vote in the EU with the other nations and greatly benefit from trade with that other 27 Nations, and restore all the social benefits that we had as a EU partner.

As Joe Biden said yesterday the EU is the world's biggest trading bloc and that leaves england our neighbour and Brexit where. 

And an absolute yes it is all a great big fuckin good idea and if you can't see that then.....................................................................................................ADIOS.

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The whole 'hur dur you are leaving one union to join another' thing would work if the perceived bad aspects of the EU were first order immediate and obvious bad things in people's day to day lives.

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17 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

See joining a union where you’re actually listened to and valued, i’d be alright with that, a currency like the euro isn’t a bad thing either. 

Indeed, the EU have done such a very good job of listening to Italy throughout the pandemic! If you think the EU is a club of equals, then you are delusional. 
 

What would be the preferred currency when you are on the waiting list to join this club that...listens?

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