When will indyref2 happen?

[DublinMagyar]

I just like to see the best in everyone Days.   

But no debate the Tories in Westminister and Holyrood at present are vile b*****ds.   

The only ones I don't mind are  Rory Stewart  and David Davies.  

Who are both'...........vile b*****ds

[welshbairn]

David Davies?

 

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, sophia said:

It is looking increasingly likely and given the hysterical and base smears that are skittered right across our beautiful discourse, it seems to me that a desperation is setting in within a certain cohort.

Thanks goodness for the likes of Kate Forbes who has something about her that sums up a determined and sympathetic outlook that is to be admired.

 

I didn't agree with everything she said in that interview.

Quote

You have to ignore everything else that’s going on, because ultimately, nobody was going to give me a free ride

 

[sophia]

1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

I didn't agree with everything she said in that interview.

 

I'd be surprised if everyone did and I'd guess that some infantile observers would take great offence in being challenged in terms of core beliefs.

 

[KingRocketman II]

steamer - "nationalists hate the English"

me - " I don't hate anyone. I would just like to see Scotland wholly governed in Edinburgh (or preferably Glasgow) by directly elected and accountable people who live here and have the best interests of Scotland at heart"

steamer - "you hate the English. all nationalists hate the English"

me - "but I don't hate any nationality or anyone"

steamer - "then let a Parliament elected with a majority vote from the English people continue to make key decisions in Scotland such as nuclear weapons, welfare, EU membership/exit,  foreign policy, defence, Covid furlough schemes etc"

me - "that hasn't worked out very well for Scotland and doesn't seem very fair"

steamer  -"bigot. Xenophobe"

etc etc

 

[Stellaboz]

Steamer also a self confessed orange lodge member. That well known group for their hatred of Catholics very specifically. He's at the stitch up constantly, please stop trying to reason with the racist troll.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

20 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Steamer also a self confessed orange lodge member. That well known group for their hatred of Catholics very specifically. He's at the stitch up constantly, please stop trying to reason with the racist troll.

Consider your average Orange Walk participant, consider further that these people believe they are somehow ‘better’ than other groups. Then consider why its absolutely pointless arguing with someone so deluded. 

[KingRocketman II]

3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Not a big fan of the recent trend for nominally centre left people to have a "favourite tory".

 

[Stellaboz]

[John Lambies Doos]

The whole premise about Scottish Nationalists hating the English is just bullshit tbh. Obviously there is a small minority but the vast majority want to see a progressive social democratic Scotland looking after its own affairs.

Unfortunately I genuinely can't say the same about British Nationalists, their constant belittling of the EU, borders on xenophobia.

On top of this I have met many No voters that constantly bitch about England but when challenged they say we 'canny do it' Strange Stockholm type syndrome I guess.

Last year I watched England play NZ in RWC semi and I was very vocal in my support for England. I guess this shouting about Scottish Nationalists hating the English is the last bastion cry of of an every diminishing section of society.

 

 

 

[TheScarf]

@Carnoustie Young Guvnordishing out the telts in the last couple of pages too.  Lovely stuff.

[Stellaboz]

It's an identity crisis from the yoons. They feel they're going to lose their identity as "British but Scottish when it suits me". It's rather sad. 

[HTG]

2 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

It's an identity crisis from the yoons. They feel they're going to lose their identity as "British but Scottish when it suits me". It's rather sad. 

Aye, gutted for them.  Hey ho.

[welshbairn]

One advantage of global warming is that Aberdeen and Edinburgh could end up in the sea.

[Stellaboz]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

One advantage of global warming is that Aberdeen and Edinburgh could end up in the sea.

Hopefully Torry and Tillidrone are washed away while they build a protective wall around the Old Aberdeen area/Newmacher area.  Wouldn't mind seeing the entire city centre washed away either, it's a pain in the arse trying to drive in that area. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

Not a big fan of the recent trend for nominally centre left people to have a "favourite tory".

Yep, for me if you are an active participant in a political group which unleashed austerity, windrush, boris, brexit etc then im sorry but you are completely beyond redemption. This idea that the centre/left loses because we fail to see decency in the right is a lot of shite, if you're for the things listed above then you’re an idiot. 

[Jeff Venom]

Who said, "if a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy"?

(Hint: it was a Tory, and it was just 8 years ago).

[Gordon EF]

52 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Yep, for me if you are an active participant in a political group which unleashed austerity, windrush, boris, brexit etc then im sorry but you are completely beyond redemption. This idea that the centre/left loses because we fail to see decency in the right is a lot of shite, if you're for the things listed above then you’re an idiot. 

I don't think it's about failing to see decency in the right. I think It's about failing to understand why people might vote for them, aside from being horrible, thick, vindictive c***s, as much as anything. If you're Kier Starmer, you can look at all these folk in the north of England who voted Tory last year and you can basically write them off as evil b*****ds who can't be reasoned with, write them off as evil b*****ds and pander to them, or try to understand why they voted how they did and think about what you can offer to change their minds without selling your soul.

There's definitely a strand of the left who'd prefer option 1. Sir Keith seems to prefer option 2. Option 3 is difficult though so nobody really bothers with it.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Gordon EF

[NotThePars]

Whenever Labour next manages to just about scrape into power unless it goes after folk like Murdoch, Zuckerberg etc. like Putin went after Khodorkovsky then it's just going to be a brief glimmer before it's back to the tories.

Yep but despite what everyone now in power in the party claims they’re lazy b*****ds who don’t have the willpower to challenge those people.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

10 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I don't think it's about failing to see decency in the right. I think It's about failing to understand why people might vote for them, aside from being horrible, thick, vindictive c***s, as much as anything. If you're Kier Starmer, you can look at all these folk in the north of England who voted Tory last year and you can basically write them off as evil b*****ds who can't be reasoned with, write them off as evil b*****ds and pander to them, or try to understand why they voted how they did and think about what you can offer to change their minds without selling your soul.

There's definitely a strand of the left who'd prefer option 1. Sir Keith seems to prefer option 2. Option 3 is difficult though so nobody really bothers with it.

Im not calling the voters active participants, the members, activists and politicians who let dark russian money infiltrate UK politics in exchange for adopting far right policies are the folks who are beyond moral redemption in my mind. I can see why for areas of the UK where people are less educated, get their political news from the sun/daily mail (if theyre being posh), feel let down by the big political machine etc etc. 
I can see why if someone says ‘its the EU’s fault things are bad, them foreigners innit’ that by offering these people that solution you capitalise on their either misinformed view, apathy, lack of engagement etc amongst other factors, promise them the solution to their problems with an identifiable bogeyman along with a compliant media (including the state broadcaster) that would result in electoral success.
It’s not the voters fault, its that we have the guardian and owen jones et al all telling these people that they should care about stuff that is of no interest to them, denigrating people who don’t agree with the minutiae of their agenda and alienating people from their agenda. The tories/ukip have just capitalised on a bubbling feeling in these areas. Is some of it fuelled by racism or xenophobia, yes, but a lot of these ideals can be challenged by competent opposition, which is absolutely lacking. What the labour party should have been doing is offering a counter ‘the tories say its the EU’s fault that nissan is shutting in Sunderland and there are no jobs there, its actually the UK’s fault, but heres how we’ll bring jobs to this area, fight the inequalities that blight you and help you feel listened to’. Instead they allowed the media to go ‘oh free wifi....’ . Just staggering how politically incompetent Labour were/are.