Gordon EF Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stormzy said: Yeah I agree with your last point. I can't see them wanting more uncertainty though, if anything they're probably traumatised and wanting to cling on to what they know, the lovely UK. Clearly I don't agree. If we're framing it as risk/opportunity versus stability/stagnation, and purely from that persepctive, is a stable, thriving UK more or less likely to make people switch from No to yes? If you're saying that the UK being a mess is likely to put people off taking a punt on independence, then surely things looking relatively stable would increase people's propensity to vote for independence. I just don't think that makes any sense. I think, if you're being honest, you'd likely be saying that any scenario is likely to put people off voting for independence. UK is doing great - why would we leave? UK is a burning rubbish pile - too much uncertainty to add more on top. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Stormzy has said, on multiple occasions now, that he's trolling. He wasn't subtle about it. He outright said "I am trolling", yet you guys are still engaging him. Can you be any fucking thicker? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, DA Baracus said: Stormzy has said, on multiple occasions now, that he's trolling. He wasn't subtle about it. He outright said "I am trolling", yet you guys are still engaging him. Can you be any fucking thicker? I have my moments -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Clearly I don't agree. If we're framing it as risk/opportunity versus stability/stagnation, and purely from that persepctive, is a stable, thriving UK more or less likely to make people switch from No to yes? If you're saying that the UK being a mess is likely to put people off taking a punt on independence, then surely things looking relatively stable would increase people's propensity to vote for independence. I just don't think that makes any sense. I think, if you're being honest, you'd likely be saying that any scenario is likely to put people off voting for independence. UK is doing great - why would we leave? UK is a burning rubbish pile - too much uncertainty to add more on top. I was just agreeing that the last few years have shown the uncertainty in some of the things mentioned, it's not something I've thought a lot about tbh, I suppose I think that people would be less likely to take a leap of faith in uncertain times (how they view it) but if it was a calmer landscape then people may be more inclined to make the leap. I'm not saying this as a direct indicator of what would convince more people more just a micro analysis of how the uncertainty would affect different people, of course some would have contrary reactions to each other, I wasn't really trying to take a stand on which one is more likely. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Stormzy has said, on multiple occasions now, that he's trolling. He wasn't subtle about it. He outright said "I am trolling", yet you guys are still engaging him. Can you be any fucking thicker? Ach, it's nice to bat some of the absolute sitters he's unintentionally throwing up out of the park. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: I wanted Brexit 1 hour ago, Stormzy said: I didnt vote for Brexit either way.. 1 hour ago, Stormzy said: You must have missed the part where I said I voted Remain... res ipsa loquitur 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, sophia said: res ipsa loquitur Is that Gaelic? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 It wasn't that long ago that the idea of Independence was a dream by some and dead in the water, now it's a living entity and a burning issue, growing by the day and driven by the utter dissatisfaction of inane policies continually emanating from westminster. Right now regions of england are in absolute turmoil and verging on revolt. This is not for Scotland.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said: It wasn't that long ago that the idea of Independence was a dream by some and dead in the water, now it's a living entity and a burning issue, growing by the day and driven by the utter dissatisfaction of inane policies continually emanating from westminster. Right now regions of england are in absolute turmoil and verging on revolt. This is not for Scotland.. ^^^^ ‘English are revolting’ type post. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 For years I've said to friends & family in the North of England they'd be better better of being the South of Scotland - quite a few of them are coming round to this POV. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 The biggest fear I have about Independence is who we will have to negotiate the break up of the Union with. We have seen that Westminster is prepared to break international law so how would we be able to trust anything they say or do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 54 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said: The biggest fear I have about Independence is who we will have to negotiate the break up of the Union with. We have seen that Westminster is prepared to break international law so how would we be able to trust anything they say or do. But we can also see that they can’t negotiate for toffee. We have more resources and they need access to them, we’ll be fine negotiating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 The biggest fear I have about Independence is who we will have to negotiate the break up of the Union with. We have seen that Westminster is prepared to break international law so how would we be able to trust anything they say or do.There's no doubt it would be bitter. Far worse than the brexit negotiations i reckon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 But we can also see that they can’t negotiate for toffee. We have more resources and they need access to them, we’ll be fine negotiating. Your closing sentence is the key to why Westminster will firmly resist. This has f**k all to do with three hundred years of shared identity, the Empire, the military tradition, Lulu, whatever, and everything to do with control of those resources. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 52 minutes ago, pandarilla said: 2 hours ago, Dunfermline Don said: The biggest fear I have about Independence is who we will have to negotiate the break up of the Union with. We have seen that Westminster is prepared to break international law so how would we be able to trust anything they say or do. There's no doubt it would be bitter. Far worse than the brexit negotiations i reckon. So it should be since we're talking about partitioning our nation state and denying people their citizenship. Border guards at Gretna is about the most imbecilic idea I have ever heard of and the notion of alienating the 500K+ English who live in Scotland and the 800K+ Scots who live in England is a level of madness unprecedented in post-war Western Europe. Brexit isn't the model. Post-partition India is. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: Brexit isn't the model. Post-partition India is. You think you'll get evicted from your home counties flat by an angry English mob, and forced to walk to Gretna only to be turned back? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: So it should be since we're talking about partitioning our nation state and denying people their citizenship. Border guards at Gretna is about the most imbecilic idea I have ever heard of and the notion of alienating the 500K+ English who live in Scotland and the 800K+ Scots who live in England is a level of madness unprecedented in post-war Western Europe. Brexit isn't the model. Post-partition India is. Do you hate Indians as much as you hate blacks, Jewish folk, Muslims, and continental Europeans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 So it should be since we're talking about partitioning our nation state and denying people their citizenship. Border guards at Gretna is about the most imbecilic idea I have ever heard of and the notion of alienating the 500K+ English who live in Scotland and the 800K+ Scots who live in England is a level of madness unprecedented in post-war Western Europe. Brexit isn't the model. Post-partition India is.Denying citizenship? Have a word.If that's the line we're going with then I feel like my citizenship has always been denied.It can be as bitter as it takes. It's going to happen, and thank f**k for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, pandarilla said: Denying citizenship? Have a word. That's the reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: So it should be since we're talking about partitioning our nation state and denying people their citizenship. Border guards at Gretna is about the most imbecilic idea I have ever heard of and the notion of alienating the 500K+ English who live in Scotland and the 800K+ Scots who live in England is a level of madness unprecedented in post-war Western Europe. Brexit isn't the model. Post-partition India is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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