When will indyref2 happen?

[San Starko Rover]

Seems like I hit a nerve.
And I have spent time in High Wycombe and I do know it for what it is, he's welcome to it.
I can hear his kids asking him to try and speak properly Daddy and not embarrass us in front of our top school highly educated chummies.

High Wycombe is nothing to shout about, there are some nice enough villages round it but the town itself is not great. Massively overpriced houses just a commuter town for London overspill. No idea how good or bad the schools are but it’s definitely not a posh area.

[MONKMAN]

Annie Wells commenting on her own posts from her second account, is absolutely brilliant.

 

She’s the Tory equivalent of Vicky the Viking.

 

 

[Guest Jedi]

 The point Alex Neil made last week about EFTA last week is an important one....getting back into the EU as we know, requires a debt ratio of 3% or under, where we would be starting at somewhere around 7%. Also there is still a fair chance of Spain vetoing an application. The prospectus needs to be honest about this...whilst we could be in a position under independence to rejoin the EU, it would likely take several years. Far better to try for the EFTA route, which also doesn't involve signing up to the Euro.

The No campaign is sure to hammer the hard border with England point. With an EFTA arrangement, that shouldn't be an issue. 'If' the Yes campaign goes down the route of playing for EU entry however, it risks the counter-argument of Scotland being independent, but....without getting back into the EU, and also potentially going through a period of negotiations with the rUK on dividing assets etc. A problem of being independent, but outside the EU would be-how do we strike trade deals smoothly? 

Brexit has undoubtedly made the case easier in some ways, but more difficult in others.

[sergie's no1 fan]

^^^^ Jock, Jocks and Jockoland. Full on hatred and self-loathing. Dearie me. 

He is definitely one of them that turns a blind eye to some of the English that call us 'porridge wogs'

[Miguel Sanchez]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Could be of some value for interrogation if the victim believes it actually works.

 

[harry94]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

 The point Alex Neil made last week about EFTA last week is an important one....getting back into the EU as we know, requires a debt ratio of 3% or under, where we would be starting at somewhere around 7%. Also there is still a fair chance of Spain vetoing an application. The prospectus needs to be honest about this...whilst we could be in a position under independence to rejoin the EU, it would likely take several years. Far better to try for the EFTA route, which also doesn't involve signing up to the Euro.

The No campaign is sure to hammer the hard border with England point. With an EFTA arrangement, that shouldn't be an issue. 'If' the Yes campaign goes down the route of playing for EU entry however, it risks the counter-argument of Scotland being independent, but....without getting back into the EU, and also potentially going through a period of negotiations with the rUK on dividing assets etc. A problem of being independent, but outside the EU would be-how do we strike trade deals smoothly? 

Brexit has undoubtedly made the case easier in some ways, but more difficult in others.

You can also theoretically join the EU customs union, even if in EFTA.

[Rodhull]

Croatia did not have a debt ratio close to 3% when it joined .

[SandyCromarty]

10 minutes ago, Jedi said:

 The point Alex Neil made last week about EFTA last week is an important one....getting back into the EU as we know, requires a debt ratio of 3% or under, where we would be starting at somewhere around 7%. Also there is still a fair chance of Spain vetoing an application. The prospectus needs to be honest about this...whilst we could be in a position under independence to rejoin the EU, it would likely take several years. Far better to try for the EFTA route, which also doesn't involve signing up to the Euro.

The No campaign is sure to hammer the hard border with England point. With an EFTA arrangement, that shouldn't be an issue. 'If' the Yes campaign goes down the route of playing for EU entry however, it risks the counter-argument of Scotland being independent, but....without getting back into the EU, and also potentially going through a period of negotiations with the rUK on dividing assets etc. A problem of being independent, but outside the EU would be-how do we strike trade deals smoothly? 

Brexit has undoubtedly made the case easier in some ways, but more difficult in others.

As I've said already given the EU hostility over Brexit and Boris and his cronies I've no doubt that we would be welcome with open arms and various obstacles could be waived, possibly just to piss off Westminster.

 As for Spain, presently because of the quarantine against Spain the loss of essential British tourism income, when the pre covid unemployment was running at 14-15%, was a hammer blow much to the Spanish Governments dissatisfaction, (to put it mildly), and that has been aimed at westminster and not so much at Scotland, so possibly we could  see positive vibes towards Scotlands EU application from Spain, as I'm sure they won't forget.

We are all aware of the Catalonian drive for Independence and Spains opposition to it, but all along the EU has maintained a firm refusal to intervene in Spains internal affairs, there has been discussion among some EU states that Catalonia is a Spanish region and not a sovereign state, Scotland until 1707 was fully recognised as an Independent Sovereign state and then voluntary entered into a union with england, Scotland presently is a nation within the UK framework and there is the distinction between Scotland and Catalonia, and that will be the argument.

For sure there are but's and if's but as I have said already Brexit was a Scottish Independence Cause gift.

[DrewDon]

36 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

He is definitely one of them that turns a blind eye to some of the English that call us 'porridge wogs'

Definitely gives it the "We're not all like that mate haha" patter down the pub. 

[Guest Jedi]

I still reckon an EFTA proposal could play out better with public opinion. Although the majority support in Scotland was obviously to remain in the EU, am still not convinced that an application to join would be fast tracked. Don't disagree that the EU views Scotland more favorably to say the least, than Westminster, but it could still be a lengthy process.

Have to anticipate 'No' points of attack, and the fact that a lot of people are still swayed by soundbites and slogans rather than doing more research. Hard border with England for an 'EU' Scotland still won't play well for some, whatever the truth or otherwise of it. 

We are also starting from a point with the Andrew Wilson report that the first decade or so could be 'rocky' financially, so a clear line on trade, who we are aiming to trade with, and how will be crucial.

[Baxter Parp]

 
Lie detectors can be helpful in certain cases.
I've heard it said that the only people who can beat the polygraph are those with serious psychological disorders. Psychos, schizos, pathological liars - people with no conscience at all.
Boris Johnson would sail through a lie detector test.

Also: people trained to beat polygraphs. Like terrorists, for instance.

Polygraphs are snake oil bunkum.

[NotThePars]

Think the SNP will push the EU line cause it’s the easiest one to sell

[Baxter Parp]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

Think the SNP will push the EU line cause it’s the easiest one to sell

[speckled tangerine]

6 hours ago, MONKMAN said:

Annie Wells commenting on her own posts from her second account, is absolutely brilliant.

 

She’s the Tory equivalent of Vicky the Viking.

 

 

Really? 

That's sad as f**k. Isn't that what Malky used to do on here? Maybe Malky is actually Annie Wells????

[MONKMAN]

14 minutes ago, speckled tangerine said:

Really? 

That's sad as f**k. Isn't that what Malky used to do on here? Maybe Malky is actually Annie Wells????

That one was quickly deleted and replaced with this;

[ICTJohnboy]

5 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

 

For sure there are but's and if's but as I have said already Brexit was a Scottish Independence Cause gift.

 

2 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Think the SNP will push the EU line cause it’s the easiest one to sell

 

With the Boris factor an added bonus?

[NotThePars]

1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

 

With the Boris factor an added bonus?

Undoubtedly. Independence will now be framed as a return to normality and emphasising the ways that things won't change where the things are seen as political normality. The last 4 years have been perfect for the SNP and their nature as a party.

[git-intae-thum]

51 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

How to lose indyref 2:

Yes Campaigner on doorstep: we could join EFTA

Normal person: what's EFTA

Yeh....... don't think we need to be that specific about it tbh.

Getting the referendum is going to be the challenge.

[ICTJohnboy]

1 minute ago, git-intae-thum said:

Yeh....... don't think we need to be that specific about it tbh.

Getting the referendum is going to be the challenge.

 

An SNP landslide in the May election will make the case for Indyref2 very hard to resist.

[git-intae-thum]

1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

An SNP landslide in the May election will make the case for Indyref2 very hard to resist.

Yip......what mandate number will that be?